0.7.6 Patch Notes

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[Illegal_Carrot]

-Stun was simply too great of an ability on too good of a platform.
-Units should not so blatantly mix both AI and AT abilities.
-LV spam is still a problem, and needed a solution badly (and this is part of a larger solution).
-The Mods/Dev decided to take LV (and vehicles in general) in a different direction, and this is one step in doing so.

Need more?

[Groundfire]

-Units should not so blatantly mix both AI and AT abilities.

Funny how P4s fit this criteria very well.

[Demon767]

-Units should not so blatantly mix both AI and AT abilities.

Funny how P4s fit this criteria very well.

or tigers/ or hetzers

[puddin]

-Units should not so blatantly mix both AI and AT abilities.

Funny how P4s fit this criteria very well.

or tigers/ or hetzers

Dont forget about panthers that Snipe infantry at great range and tanks too. 

[TheArea]

Dont see how taking away stun is even part of resolving LV spam, that sounds more like a resource problem.

[Demon767]

its a balance problem

WHICH I DONT CARE TO ELABORATE ON   lol

[Smokaz]

Panthers are 500 fuel, the most expensive "medium" tank in the game while having less health for cost than other "mediums" like the crocodile. They better be damn good for 500 fuel, incidentally they are quite good. Why is it that people conjure up all kinds of surprise gripes or imbalances to argue a point when they dont agree with a chance? Since when was panther OP?

[Illegal_Carrot]

-Units should not so blatantly mix both AI and AT abilities.

Funny how P4s fit this criteria very well.

Shermans do too!

Don't be stupid.

[Groundfire]

Im just saying that's not a criteria for balancing a unit because there are so many exceptions.

[Masacree]

Medium armor has a multitude of counters - t17's tend to dodge or kite or stun their "counters" with ease.

[Groundfire]

It never dodged any better than an M8/Puma/PE AC/I could go on, and even those often times get hit which made stun the only sure fire way to keep a panther from breathing down your tail pipe.

[MonthlyMayhem]

Medium armor has a multitude of counters - t17's tend to dodge or kite or stun their "counters" with ease.

Have you ever tried to kite with a T17? Its pretty epic fail, accuracy is horrible, which is why lots of the time you see the T17 get right up in the faces of their opponents, shreks too. Even if you do stun a target, you won't be able to do any damage.

The PE AC is a pain too. Dodging all them medium tank shots, zipping in hitting infantry then Overdriving out. Superspeed much? Just sayin'..

[Groundfire]

tbh, ive lost all faith that this is a design problem a couple days ago when the guy I was playing with (while his pak was getting T17 raped) typed in something to the affect of "this takes too much micro" when i pointed out he had an upgunned puma sitting idle a screen length away.

No offense to who it was, i honestly dont remember, could've been a new guy for all i knew, but that moment stuck out at me for a reason...

[Illegal_Carrot]

Im just saying that's not a criteria for balancing a unit because there are so many exceptions.

The P4 (and other medium armor) are general purpose units, able to respond to any problem with some degree effectiveness.
The T17 was a purely anti-infantry unit, that for some reason had the ability to counter/stall specifically armor. You could escape any sort of armor threat by stunning it, or Stun a tank right in front of an ATG, or even Stun a tank and then kill supporting troops before the tank can properly respond.

If a Firefly could get BAR Suppresion on its Hull MG, would that be fair? No. Hell, if 20mm Pumas could Stun any Allied vehicle and do the same, would it be fair? No.

[Groundfire]

Im just saying that's not a criteria for balancing a unit because there are so many exceptions.

The P4 (and other medium armor) are general purpose units, able to respond to any problem with some degree effectiveness.
The T17 was a purely anti-infantry unit, that for some reason had the ability to counter/stall specifically armor. You could escape any sort of armor threat by stunning it, or Stun a tank right in front of an ATG, or even Stun a tank and then kill supporting troops before the tank can properly respond.

If a Firefly could get BAR Suppresion on its Hull MG, would that be fair? No. Hell, if 20mm Pumas could Stun any Allied vehicle and do the same, would it be fair? No.

Funny, because ive had my vehicles tread broke in front of invisible paks (or nearby marders) by LTHTs. Fair? ...No (wait mby, it is an axis combo, and axis are allowed to have the broken shit)

Your premise for Stun being overpowered relies on the situation that there is a counter nearby to capitalize on the incapacitated tank which in my book qualifies as combined arms.

Both of your examples also function on this premises which there are axis equivilants similar to your examples, or they are already in game. Churchill Tank Shock = Bar suppression plus a Churchill has a better chance of destroying the suppressed infantry, which the Firefly with suppression would have a considerably harder time doing.

You dont want to remove combined arms from the game do you? There's o'so little of it as it is...

[Illegal_Carrot]

ive had my vehicles tread broke in front of invisible paks

LATHTs are nowhere near as effective as T17s, and Treadbreaker is an appropriate ability for it as it is an AT unit. You could claim, then, that it should not have Focus Fire, but you must keep in mind that without FF, noone would take the LATHT, and they'd be near worthless. The T17 does not have this problem, however, and is well worth taking, even without Stun (especially including all the cost/pop reductions it was just given!). Really, the LATHT is an exception, becasue it would otherwise be useless.

Your premise for Stun being overpowered relies on the situation that there is a counter nearby to capitalize on the incapacitated tank which in my book qualifies as combined arms.

The Stun/ATG combo was only one example of how Stun could be used. But yeah, you should always have some sort of AT on the field anyways, so it shouldn't be too hard to capitalize off of a Stun use that way.

Churchill Tank Shock = Bar suppression plus a Churchill has a better chance of destroying the suppressed infantry

No duh. I used the Firefly in my example for a reason: the FF is a purely AT unit, and there's no reason for it to have Suppression like that. Similarly, the T17 is an AI unit, and there's no reason for it to have an AT ability like that.
I think you miss the point:

wait mby, it is an axis combo, and axis are allowed to have the broken shit

So you're claiming that I and the game devs are Axis fanboys.. OK, there goes what little credibility you had.

[Groundfire]

Christ, where to start...

A.) T17s got a pop reduction, no cost reduction.

B.) LATHT is now for all intents and purposes, an anti infantry unit because it no longer has to pay for it's anti infantry upgrade. Yes, LATHT and T17 have different combat effectiveness but the intention for Treadbreaker and Stun shot are exactly the same. (only TB is arguably better b/c effects dont wear off)

As such, the LATHT is far less cheaper and far more pop efficient in the role that deamonizes the T17. That it's allowed to just role up and disable a vehicles movement with no more effort than the click of a button.

Were talking about stun shot here, leave out the effectiveness of the T17s gun b/c its irrelevant to the discussion.

C.) So a Firefly has suppression fire, what's your point? Might as well take away abilities such as Machinegun AP rounds if were having such a problem with specialized units having cross combat genre effectiveness.

D.) mmk, i got no credibility.

[SX23]

LOL, What is that Stupid comparaison?
ATLAHT are not even near from t17 effectivness. First, make T17 armor weak enough to be killed by 2 bar rifle squads, then make the accuracy of the T17 a buff that only work for 20 secs (and then it can't hit any infantry), and then come back saying the ATLAHT is good. The only thing worth on it is the tread breaker but it is priced.

[MonthlyMayhem]

ive had my vehicles tread broke in front of invisible paks

LATHTs are nowhere near as effective as T17s, and Treadbreaker is an appropriate ability for it as it is an AT unit. You could claim, then, that it should not have Focus Fire, but you must keep in mind that without FF, noone would take the LATHT, and they'd be near worthless. The T17 does not have this problem, however, and is well worth taking, even without Stun (especially including all the cost/pop reductions it was just given!). Really, the LATHT is an exception, becasue it would otherwise be useless.

Focus fire is about as retarded as the stun was. Like you said, the LATHT is purely an AT vehicle. Focus fire makes it lethal against infantry, and tread breaker itself is retarded (especially since it has a chance to immobilize first shot). Kinda worse then stun.

[SX23]

Focus fire is about as retarded as the stun was. Like you said, the LATHT is purely an AT vehicle. Focus fire makes it lethal against infantry, and tread breaker itself is retarded (especially since it has a chance to immobilize first shot). Kinda worse then stun.

1. FF is only for 20sec, it's not permanent like the t17.

2. That's a joke right? THE LATHT AN ANTI-TANK VEHICLE!! LOLOLOLOL. Oh, nvm that, it can kill jeeps, but it can't penetrate M8 or do them dmg. But it can still killl jeep so it's an anti-tank vehicle.