Equipment Surplus

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[Unkn0wn]

I like that idea, but I'm not sure if it's worth the effort :p

[Masacree]

They were nerfed to prevent people from building companies with just Volks that have fausts and nades AFAIK. (Im looking at you Mysthalin)

So presumably their price should go down, right?

No it shouldn't.



You can already gain an army of volks that have nades and fausts for a mere 185 MP 60 MU each. That's easily 30 squads of units that can basically do anything they like - take on tanks AND infantry.

Elitegren - you did see it. If you remember our games of old where your armor coy kept shooting all those volkies, that's when I had the nades. Too bad there was no infantry to throw them at ;p. Might revitalise that coy some day.

Except for the fact that its 60 munitions on a squad with very low health and damage, otherwise, which can now fight tanks, badly, or infantry, also badly, which gets ripped a new one by BARs because of this low health, and low suppression resistance. Volks are not close range units at all - having a grenade with a very short throw is very awkward for them.

[Mysthalin]

They have the same suppression resistance as riflemen and grenadiers.
They're 60 HP/man, so not exactly weak.

BARs defeat them, but if you as much as SPREAD OUT, you can definitely get a nade off. If you lose a squad doing it and killing the BAR, congratulations, you've just paid off twice the cost in munitions.


Don't you think that 30 units in a company, all capable of anti-tank and throwing grenades is just slightly OP? Get the ever-powerful workhorse of the wehr army - the P4, or a StuG to support you, and you're having a lot of fun right there. Get an 88 up, and you're not exactly short-handed on AT options.

[Unkn0wn]

^ King volk spammer btw 

[Smokaz]

They were nerfed to prevent people from building companies with just Volks that have fausts and nades AFAIK. (Im looking at you Mysthalin)

So presumably their price should go down, right?

No it shouldn't.



You can already gain an army of volks that have nades and fausts for a mere 185 MP 60 MU each. That's easily 30 squads of units that can basically do anything they like - take on tanks AND infantry.

Elitegren - you did see it. If you remember our games of old where your armor coy kept shooting all those volkies, that's when I had the nades. Too bad there was no infantry to throw them at ;p. Might revitalise that coy some day.

Except for the fact that its 60 munitions on a squad with very low health and damage, otherwise, which can now fight tanks, badly, or infantry, also badly, which gets ripped a new one by BARs because of this low health, and low suppression resistance. Volks are not close range units at all - having a grenade with a very short throw is very awkward for them.

I dunno, I'd think grenades on mp40s could be worth it seeing as this helps them nail 30 cals and units in buildings, which tbh, they are shit at.

[Mysthalin]

^ King volk spammer btw 

Thank's for backing me up there ;p.

[Masacree]

Don't you think that 30 units in a company, all capable of anti-tank and throwing grenades is just slightly OP?

Isn't that exactly what riflemen are? All purpose infantry, that suck at everything, essentially. The only difference is you need a t2 unlock for it.

[Smokaz]

Dude, Faust is never going to work on its own.

[Mysthalin]

Don't you think that 30 units in a company, all capable of anti-tank and throwing grenades is just slightly OP?

Isn't that exactly what riflemen are? All purpose infantry, that suck at everything, essentially. The only difference is you need a t2 unlock for it.

The reason is simple.
Faust = 30 mun.
Sticky = 60 mun.

The laws of mathematics come into play and make sure that you won't be able to get quite as many all-purpose riflemen as you will be able to get all-purpose volks.

Not only that - volks are less prone to death, even if it is by a small margin.
On top of that, other than the wickers - there is nothing that can truly suppress a volks blob as efficiently as a MG42 would suppress a rifle squad.
On top of that, you can faust MGs to death. Good luck doing the same with a sticky.
On top of that - omniscience. You're not walking into anything unprepared.

[Masacree]

Don't you think that 30 units in a company, all capable of anti-tank and throwing grenades is just slightly OP?

Isn't that exactly what riflemen are? All purpose infantry, that suck at everything, essentially. The only difference is you need a t2 unlock for it.

The reason is simple.
Faust = 30 mun.
Sticky = 60 mun.

Sure, but the sticky is FAR more effective against armor than the faust.

The laws of mathematics come into play and make sure that you won't be able to get quite as many all-purpose riflemen as you will be able to get all-purpose volks.

Sure, but the volks are weaker (worst AT, worst grenade, no BARS, worst health

Not only that - volks are less prone to death, even if it is by a small margin.
smaller squad size
On top of that, other than the wickers - there is nothing that can truly suppress a volks blob as efficiently as a MG42 would suppress a rifle squad.

.30 cal (well it kills anyways) .50 (on hts, as I'm sure you know, or on any piece of armor) or BAR suppression

On top of that, you can faust MGs to death. Good luck doing the same with a sticky.
sounds like a bug to me.

On top of that - omniscience. You're not walking into anything unprepared.

God forbid a t4 actually do something. It is an axis t4 afterall.  This isn't a problem with equipment surplus.

GG no RE

[Illegal_Carrot]

Myst is a pretty neutral player, so I don't think it's fair to accuse him of an Allied bias or anything of the sort.
Still, though, I highly doubt that Faust/Nade Volks would be trouble at all, seeing as how all three are pretty shit.

[Masacree]

I didn't accuse him of anything.

[Illegal_Carrot]

'God forbid a t4 actually do something. It is an axis t4 afterall ' seemed like an accusation of bias to me, but if you meant nothing by it then I apologies for accusing you of accusing Myst.

[Masacree]

It was more of a jab at percieved doctrinal inequalities.

"This is why we can't have nice things..."

[Smokaz]

The laws of mathematics also have a side note that shows the number of volks you need to counter a t17 ..

[Mysthalin]

The laws of mathematics also have a side note that shows the number of volks you need to counter a t17 ..

Good point, and that is the sole reason why you buy stugs/P4s on top of an 88 with your massive army of volks.


The sticky IS more effective, but it's also shorter range - even with the T3. You retain a larger chance of popping off a faust than you do a sticky bomb. And seeing as it is more expensive(double the price) you can't gain a 30 rifle company all equipped with stickies and grenades. You can, on the other hand, gain a 30 volks company all equipped with nades and fausts.

On top of that, the sticky bomb has a 0.5 damage modifier against skirted tanks, meaning you'll need 12 stickies to kill a panzer IV with skirts. You won't ever need more than 6 fausts to kill a sherman(and with the awesomeness that is the StuG, get 3 fausts in and the stug will 2-shot what's left of the sherman).

The faust is not, by far, the worst AT. If anything, I prefer it to the shrek for it being far more reliable at both penetration and accuracy. Not to mention the cheap price.

Worst grenade? I don't know, the incendiary grenade, with it's impressive 12.5 damage on impact would seem like the worst grenade to me, as very few people actually stay in the burn.

They have 60 health/man. Rifles have 55 health/man. Sure, there's less volks in a group, but the extra bit of health really helps you throw the nade or fire the faust when facing small arms. I'm certain you're aware that if a soldier dies while doing either of those things, he stops doing them?

.50 cals and BAR suppression only suppress one, at best 2 squads at a time. Also, please do try and suppress my volks blob with your .50 cals. You're only going to suppress me at short range, which is exactly the range I want you at with 4 fausts by my side.

MGs getting killed by fausts - it's been around since forever. You can also snipe the crew on AT guns by shooting the rear side of the shield, which is funny as hell when you do it.

Where have I implied omniscience is OP? If anything, it's one of the most fun and balanced T4s in the game, far more balanced than say, the T3 Grenade Experts that gives me vet 2 sticky range.

[Masacree]

The laws of mathematics also have a side note that shows the number of volks you need to counter a t17 ..

Good point, and that is the sole reason why you buy stugs/P4s on top of an 88 with your massive army of volks.


The sticky IS more effective, but it's also shorter range - even with the T3. You retain a larger chance of popping off a faust than you do a sticky bomb. And seeing as it is more expensive(double the price) you can't gain a 30 rifle company all equipped with stickies and grenades. You can, on the other hand, gain a 30 volks company all equipped with nades and fausts.

There's a reason allied tanks don't fear volksgrenediers - getting hit by a panzerfaust is almost irrelevant. A sticky on the other hand cripples a tank until its repaired, and thanks to the repair system, that's a very significant advantage. Not every rifleman needs a sticky to be able to scare away armor.

On top of that, the sticky bomb has a 0.5 damage modifier against skirted tanks, meaning you'll need 12 stickies to kill a panzer IV with skirts. You won't ever need more than 6 fausts to kill a sherman(and with the awesomeness that is the StuG, get 3 fausts in and the stug will 2-shot what's left of the sherman).

The faust is not, by far, the worst AT. If anything, I prefer it to the shrek for it being far more reliable at both penetration and accuracy. Not to mention the cheap price.

Getting of a single faust, for the most part, does nothing. Getting of a single sticky, for instance, cripples the tank.

Worst grenade? I don't know, the incendiary grenade, with it's impressive 12.5 damage on impact would seem like the worst grenade to me, as very few people actually stay in the burn.

Instant damage, so its undodgeable, and it will kill support weapons.

They have 60 health/man. Rifles have 55 health/man. Sure, there's less volks in a group, but the extra bit of health really helps you throw the nade or fire the faust when facing small arms. I'm certain you're aware that if a soldier dies while doing either of those things, he stops doing them?

Except rifles have a total of 30 more hp than volks, which means all your expensive volk squads with upgrades on them are more likely to die.

.50 cals and BAR suppression only suppress one, at best 2 squads at a time. Also, please do try and suppress my volks blob with your .50 cals. You're only going to suppress me at short range, which is exactly the range I want you at with 4 fausts by my side.

Obv you can suppress them at long range. Just right click behind your vehicle, hold shift, and do it again. Micro?


MGs getting killed by fausts - it's been around since forever. You can also snipe the crew on AT guns by shooting the rear side of the shield, which is funny as hell when you do it.

iirc relic changed targeting on fausts to only be usable on tanks in like patch 1.3 or 1.4 because they were being used as a poor man's countersniper.

Where have I implied omniscience is OP? If anything, it's one of the most fun and balanced T4s in the game, far more balanced than say, the T3 Grenade Experts that gives me vet 2 sticky range.

Then I'm not understanding what your point was in your last post - Volks grenades should be worst than other grenades because volks can get buffed by a balanced t4? That logic doesn't make any sense.

[Mysthalin]

One faust - yes, the tank can just shrug off. I doubt you'll just shrug off 400-500 damage that comes with 4 fausts, though.

I don't think you realise the exact way you should be spamming volks, then - if you imply you're gonna be fausting with just 1 squad at a time.

Inc nade : it's dodgeable - use your eyes and see the wind-up animation, then just move. It won't kill support weapons unless you're an idiot and stay in the flames for a full 10-20 seconds to actually die with the crew.


Who cares about total HP - it's the /man HP that you should care about. A grenadier squad has 10 health less than a rifle squad. Think it's really less survivable?

Good luck truly suppressing anything at long range with a .50 cal, unless the player using the volks is a retard. I'd personally prefer to fight automatic weaponry from cover.

No they didn't. They just reduced the accuracy against infantry - you can still target anything you like with fausts.

Stop putting words in my mouth. A true volks-spam company relying on grenades and fausts would naturally go for omniscience for full battlefield awareness. If he's not going that, he's going for fatherland defense to get more health to pop either of those things off. If he's not even going that, he's going for camo equipement, which allows him to get those fausts and nades off from cloak. Either which way you go - you have something aiding your volks-spam in it's eternal quest to get off fausts and nades.

[Illegal_Carrot]

One faust - yes, the tank can just shrug off. I doubt you'll just shrug off 400-500 damage that comes with 4 fausts, though.

You're going to lose at least an entire Volks squad just trying to get off that volley vs any competent Allied player.

One faust - yes, the tank can just shrug off. I doubt you'll just shrug off 400-500 damage that comes with 4 fausts, though.

Inc nades force you to leave whatever cover you're hiding behind, which makes the allied unit easy pickings.

Good luck truly suppressing anything at long range with a .50 cal,

Have fun getting kited.

No they didn't. They just reduced the accuracy against infantry - you can still target anything you like with fausts.

If you have nades on your Volks, why the hell are you firing a Faust at support weapons, anyways?

[Masacree]

One faust - yes, the tank can just shrug off. I doubt you'll just shrug off 400-500 damage that comes with 4 fausts, though.

You're going to lose at least an entire Volks squad just trying to get off that volley vs any competent Allied player.

One faust - yes, the tank can just shrug off. I doubt you'll just shrug off 400-500 damage that comes with 4 fausts, though.

Inc nades force you to leave whatever cover you're hiding behind, which makes the allied unit easy pickings.

Good luck truly suppressing anything at long range with a .50 cal,

Have fun getting kited.

No they didn't. They just reduced the accuracy against infantry - you can still target anything you like with fausts.

If you have nades on your Volks, why the hell are you firing a Faust at support weapons, anyways?

<3