[CW] How to suck less at CW?

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[slyguy7447]

Ok, had 24 completed games as CW, and i knew it would be a hard learning curve, but i thought i would be able to play competently by now.  Seems like anything i try is simply crushed mercilessly by PE or WM players, not sure if i'm being outplayed or if it's just that axis units are simply "run your guys at the enemy and they win".

Honestly, i micro all my units, button vehicles when appropriate, support bren squads with PIAT sappers or fireflies, snipe tanks at range with the firefly and IMO i'm pretty cagey with it.  My inf seems to get raped regardless of what axis squad attacks them.  The only time i've seen them do well is in green cover in friendly territory, so the officer bonus and defenders of dunkirk passive doctrine stacks, and they do well.  On the attack they seem almost useless sometimes, unless i can get them in a building, at which point axis flame pios promptly show up and torch them, or a pair of 20mm armoured cars show up and obliterate them, and they're moving so quick i can't button and sure as hell can't hit with a PIAT.  

Just not sure what i'm doing wrong, i use cover whenever it's available, do my best to choose my fights when engaging superior axis tanks with my own, and even what's perceived as an OP unit in the staghound seem to get cleaned up real quick, even when i call in 2 or 3 at once, usually they'll kill some infantry, maybe a mortar or AT gun before they're killed.  Been trying to conserve my inf squad remnants so they gain experience, and i have seen some improvement in their combat abilities as a result, but sometimes my two squads and officer at 12 cap get rushed by 3-4 enemy squads, which if they're packing upgrades it's understandable i would lose the fight, but i've also seen 3-4 squads of basic (i.e. no upgrades whatsoever) guys rush and win the firefight, frequently across exposed roads and such.

Can any veteran CW players shed some light on what i'm doing wrong?

[Killer344]

Post your replays.

[Wnb 1337]

Well.. Even if we know that axis infantry are basicly stronger in survival (Somewhat), i had a problem keeping em alive aswell, and i felt that allies were just running thru and crushing em.

To be honest, it still happens

-Wnb, a guy that plays EiR, stacks for defeat, administrates Waffen PP and has played over 100 games

[Demon767]

your last game i saw a lack in tactics and company makeup to play completely.

you need far more experience in EIR to get rid of VCoh Gameplay. You need waaay more games to get used to EIR which includes getting rid of VCoh from your mind, and adapting to the ever changing battlefield that you will experience in every EIR game. 24 games is not enough.

The 2 brensquads with 2 Piat squads does not work in EIR. you cant expect tanks to just sit there and take hits. they will kite you, like i did in your Game.

You need to understand the mixture of units on the field to face all possibilities. This can involve 1 ATG with 1 piat with supporting stag or 1 ATG with piats with some bren squads and HMG.

Your firefly usage was not aggressive enough, A firefly is the best Anti tank in the game, if you bring it on. use only Infanty and Mortars to combat enemy Infantry. you never need to have more AT on the field if you have a firefly.

just a few tips.

[Unkn0wn]

You should post your company, platoon per platoon.
(Take screenshots or write it out)

Company build is extremely important if you want to become better at the game as a lot of what you can do in game is determined by how well you built your company.

[Evilnrg]

but i like to build fail company and still win the games like rifle only or volks only

[Smokaz]

I knew it!

[GrinningD]

My advice, as somebody who has finally started to suck less with CW:

Post your replays!

Seriously, it's worth the time and minimal effort involved.

A few basic build tips:

1 x recon tommy + 1 x ATG call in.  3 of these will do you for your company. Use the recons to scout ahead for long range atg shots. See that enemy tank on the edge of your vision? Cos he sure can't see you. trundle up the atg and POW POW! now it's reversing away to repair and the wrath of the MP44 storms is on it's way to get you!  NOW bring in that stag.

1 x tommy bren + 1 x tommy vanilla.  This is a common style throughout factions. Bren lays down the hurt, vanilla runs round the flank. On the defense vanillas position in front of brens. They are charged and the brens get plenty of time to wittle down the numbers.

Recons are worth it. Snipe those MP40s. Snipe those MP44s. Snipe those Shreks. Snipe those weapon teams. Snipe those vanilla volks facing the other way. That's a quater of a standard axis squad gone making them much easier to deal with.

Captains are king and should always have FOO. LTs suck arse.

Always have a recon in your starting call in.

Fireflies are like Captains. Cromwells are like LTs. learn this important distinction.

For that matter MG and mortar squads are pretty much like LTs but some people find a use for them.

Recon tommies make excellent bacon butties.

PIATs? Not a fan myself though useful go-to guys if you stick em in a carrier for when you find that tank hiding behind a house / treeline / MG42 squad.

Recon tommies will steal your shows if given half a chance. Sneaky little buggers.

Um...

Oh yes:

Don't use too many recon tommies. These guys are basically useless. (that should throw those sneaky axis reading this off the scent)

[Sach]

piats are nice but you have to use them in ambush mode really. You can be aggressive with them but you will need a lieutenant and a button squad most times.

Except in heavily urban areas then you can just sit back and lol.

[LeoPhone]

u need roos.

[Heartmann]

Imo the CW is a very sneaky version of PE, but in the sense it is a company used to counter flanking.
U have loads of units that can cloak, and use piats and rifle nades to force enemies to come to u sett upp vickers pinn em and go crazy! or have stag and just sitt pack and FAP away.

When i comes to tanks, well thats just as everyone else says, use their strenghts, firefly has low health, so use CWT as scout and let it take the shiet and FF will kit the shiet outta the tanks, or juse recon tommies, (GOD i hate them buggers) and scout. Information on the field is key, what do they have and what are they gonna get you with, think RTS chess

[NightRain]

All you need is 3 Priests with Creeping Barrage and Supercharged Rounds and a Lt with Flare ability with tommy callins and 3 PIAT squads and 4-3 Anti Tank Guns and few Bren squads and a decent ally. That'll win you games

[slyguy7447]

I play Royal Engineers, been using this setup lately:

Starting callin-
2 Tommies w/ brens
2 Sappers w/ PIATs
Lt.
MMG Carrier w/ AP burst

then 2 callins of 2 tommies w/ brens, one has a Captain w/ FOO as well,

2 Callins of 2 Sappers w/ PIATs, one with a Lt.
HMG and Mortar callin
HMG, mortar, 6pdr callin
recon section, 6pdr callin

Then the following vehicles all as single vehicle callins:
2 Fireflies
2 Churchill MkIV's
3 Staghounds
1 25pdr emplacement

Pretty sure that's right, going mostly off memory as i often make minor adjustments to try something different.

[Mysthalin]

I clearly taught grinning to spam recon tommies well ^^.

[Demon767]

I will Give you a company Slyguy and tactics behind it. PM when you see this.

[GrinningD]

I clearly taught grinning to spam recon tommies well ^^.

Indeed Mysth. I thought they were utter pants before.

Slyguy

Your starting callin is almost exactly what I first ran. It too was often eaten alive.  I understand the thinking - button with the brens and pile on the LT boosted PIATs. But the enemy are smart. They WILL do their best to avoid being buttoned. They WILL notice those sappers creeping up on their tank behind the house. PIATs are a good trick but they should not be your main AT.

Starting callin-
2 Tommies w/ brens
2 Sappers w/ PIATs
Lt.
MMG Carrier w/ AP burst

To change your units whilst keeping the structure basically intact I would:

Include 1 recon tommy in the starting call in and 1 ATG - for the reasons I stated above. The ATG just has so much range when coupled with the recon's sight that it is truly invaluable.

Also I'd swap the LT for a Captain with FOO. It's never too early to start raining down the hurt and with axis forces sprinting on and riding in HTs they will often be in position before you. Time to get them out of it.

then 2 callins of 2 tommies w/ brens, one has a Captain w/ FOO as well,

2 Callins of 2 Sappers w/ PIATs, one with a Lt.]

Don't put officers with double infantry squads. Send them in a bren carrier or with a single squad. You need those double inf to be available as soon as possible. I know 2 pop doesn't seem like much but sometimes it can make all the difference. The bren carrier can get the officer to the action much faster as well.

You have too many PIATs on the field for my liking. Yes they are lovely but you have access to 6lbers now. They are available for a reason - use them.

HMG and Mortar callin
HMG, mortar, 6pdr callin
recon section, 6pdr callin

British mortar has a truly sucky range but I have seen them used to effect - your call.

HMG? I'd say waste of manpower and munitions, get some more brens in.

Then the following vehicles all as single vehicle callins:
2 Fireflies
2 Churchill MkIV's
3 Staghounds
1 25pdr emplacement

Your vehicles are good. I'm a huge churchill fan though I'd rather field the Mk VI rather than the IV if you haven't got access yet then it's a good choice of meat shield for your fireflies. Use them as the battering rams they are and to block tanks for your ATGs to rip apart.  Again, PIATs have a tendency to damage your own tank if used - another reason to have more ATGs.

If you can find the room, bring and MG nest to protect the 25pdr.


In short your main problem is a lack of fighting infantry. You have a total of seven offensive infantry on infantry squads. I, for example, run 15. With plenty of tanks, stags and ATGs as well.

A few single squads of unupgraded tommies are useful. Maybe stick a healing center on 1 or 2 of them and use them to recrew.  Brits lack the assault troops of the other sides so your standard tommies fill the roll. Brens squads are support weapons so only 3 guys fire when they are moving vs 5 with vanilla tommies, recons and riflenades. If you want to attack something you are going to need some flexibility somewhere.

Good luck, welcome to the engies and just you wait until you can unleash the madness of the crocodile upon your foes.

[Unkn0wn]

Starting callin-
2 Tommies w/ brens
2 Sappers w/ PIATs
Lt.
MMG Carrier w/ AP burst

This is not an ideal start because the AT side of it is unreliable. Especially if someone was to start vehicle heavy the piats just won't cut it. Piats are great to keep tanks at bay and - depending on the map and possibe surprise elements- inflict some heavy damage from time to time but they should not be your prime source of AT either way... they're simply too unreliable for that. A good player will not always let you button succesfully and without button you'll have a hard time landing your piat shots.

1 ATG + 1 Piat is a much better combo because the ATG is a much more reliable AT centerpiece where as the piats will prevent and/or surprise tanks trying to flank the ATG. Combine these 2 units with a bren squad and you have yourself a good, reliable, AT start. (Keep in mind that R+ might still require you to alter this composition as sometimes you might start off against a very vehicle heavy start which no convential start is able to counter - in this case the bren mmg is a good idea)

An additional problem your starting call in faces is that it has no good way of dealing with an entrenched enemy. Regardless of the game mode and especially when facing wehrmacht players you will undoubtedly come to face situations in which your enemy has MGs in buildings, supported by mortars, a pak and some infantry. Your starting call in is not capable of dealing with these support weapons as you have no indirect fire in your start. Nor do you have enough combat (non AT) infantry to force a breakthrough by using traditional infantry flanking manoeuvres. (in which one squad draws mg fire and others + lt move in close for the kill) 

The solution is to either start with a british mortar, which is somewhat unreliable given its limited range but can be extremely deadly in the hands of a good player thanks to its superior firepower, or start with a captain + FOO. Personally I'd advice you the latter as its easier to use, exchange the lt with a FOO cpt and you'll have yourself the much needed indirect fire support. A good British player can keep his captain alive at all time, enabling him to call in multiple FOO strikes over the course of a game.

[Azoreo]

GrinningD had a great post until he said Cromwell's were like LT's (which he said were garbage).

I keep one Firefly for emergencies and almost never bring him out - Cromwell's rape if you know what you're doing - they're very solid AT, and great at stomping infantry, plus flank speed is invaluable (for both attacking/escaping).

Crom's usually don't get targeted as a priority, but a Firefly sure will.  And, IMO, Fireflies bounce more shots (as far as I've seen) than Crom's.

[MonthlyMayhem]

Cromwells fail at AT for the medium and up. They're good against light vehicles though, and they're nasty against infantry. They hardly bounce shots, but they have a lot of health.

Firefly's are good to have, and they usually go good with a CCT. My strategy was to scout with the CCT and kite with the firefly (which I'm sure lots of people do) but this can also be done with any kinda recon unit (tommies jeeps etc)

[Demon767]

Cromwells are fail.

They cant penetrate any medium tank up, they can just penetrate orange medium tanks and shouldnt rely for it to take out infantry and light vehicles (you have stags for that)

Fireflies bounce more than croms.... you are crazy. Slyguy dont even bother with that opinion.
that is a straight false opinion.

Fireflies has what 55 range or so. with nearly 100% penetration and great damage on every single Axis armor in game, can reliably penetrate KT's frontal armor FYI. id like to see a crom try to penetrate a KT from the rear XD