Airborne strafing run

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[Killer344]

afaik, I didn't say anything about it, neither any of the other devs. Fine-tuning will take place once all doctrines are implemented.

[Pak88mm]

afaik, I didn't say anything about it, neither any of the other devs. Fine-tuning will take place once all doctrines are implemented.

find it funny how fine tunning assault nades was instant, yet nothing of sorts happens with allied broken shit. blatant bias. and yes once again i win buttons like strafes and off maps either need to be removed or in case of offmaps toned down or given added drift. strafes like mentioned have been a bitch complaint number since day 1. bringing putrid shit into this mod like strafes is outright idiotic. they never are balanced ever. just remove em and spare us the fine tuning bullshit.

[gamesguy2]

I am sorry killer,  But so far i have seen no one come up with a valid reason Why strafe is at all a good ability... on an already stacked doctrine...  

So far the people standing up for the strafe are all devs... And the fact that Alhoa actually agreed with me dispite our putrid hatred for one another shocked the shit out of me.  

Look I just want some valid reasons or maybe one valid reason for Strafe staying in As is.  

Saying...
"It mgiht not do anything"  ISn;t that valid of a point because on the same regard it can instagib entire squads in no cover or even yellow cover.  

Its a bit disturbing with Airborne in general how the entire point of Doctrines was to not Overbuff units such as in Armor and Blitz and Def docs how units are not overly buffed, and abilities tonned down... Then AB comes out with everything buffing AB and off maps that still gib....  without warning...  

Ok, here's one reason:

Strafing run is worthless on bigger maps and overpowered on smaller ones.  There is no easy way to fix this, as increasing the speed of the plane makes it fire far fewer shots, same with decreasing range.

I suppose I could turn it into an overwatch ability like the henschel and then reduce the damage on each pass, that's about the only way I can think of to make it balanced.

[BigDick]

na just increase the free uses to 2 and on purchase to 3 more and done

no need to tune the ability itsself there was enoughfucking arround with vcoh stats and abilities (pak38 changes) to break the balance

[winisez]

Gamesguy I agree with your post entirely, the mechanic strafe works with makes it very difficult ( impossible) to properly balance for different map sizes, hence I pointed out before are we going for cool stuff in EIR or balanced stuff. If you cant balance an ability, it needs to be fundamentally changed and/or flat out replaced. If your going for cool, I got no problem with strafe as it is, a plane zooming past with machine guns is cool. But not balanced.

[Tamska]

Well my idea how to make strafing run little more balanced is that it can friendly fire.

[winisez]

That is a step towards changing strafe from what it is, to a more conventional offmap.

[lionel23]

Could always replace it with rocket strafing run.  That does FF damage and the rockets can be tweaked damage wise if strafing run can't be easily given Friendly fire.

[Mysthalin]

Or we, you know, just give the strafe FF damage without adding silly rockets in?

[lionel23]

I said if it was possible, don't know why strafe never had FF, I mean talk abount uncanny accuracy from the pilot of a fast moving plane to miss all the allies on the road to kill all those grens, lol.

[LeoPhone]

u could just make the strafle the same as precision strike: the plane always comes from the longest path.

it works for precision strike, it comes down pretty fast. + it will be pretty much the same for every map since length of maps are about the same...

that it needs friendly fire is OBVIOUS, and if it is possible to lower the amount of randomness in it (sometimes it gibs 3 squads at once, other times nothing) that would be great.

[Mysthalin]

I said if it was possible, don't know why strafe never had FF, I mean talk abount uncanny accuracy from the pilot of a fast moving plane to miss all the allies on the road to kill all those grens, lol.

How much friendly fire, exactly, does your .30 cal or MG42 deal to your men near some pinned enemies? I'm pretty certain that's the reason why strafe deals no FF damage too - because it's based on bullets.

[gamesguy2]

u could just make the strafle the same as precision strike: the plane always comes from the longest path.

it works for precision strike, it comes down pretty fast. + it will be pretty much the same for every map since length of maps are about the same...

that it needs friendly fire is OBVIOUS, and if it is possible to lower the amount of randomness in it (sometimes it gibs 3 squads at once, other times nothing) that would be great.

No, precision strike is an illusion, it looks good but is completely different from strafe.

The way I made precision strike, it doesn't matter what direction the plane comes in nor how big the map is, the plane has no weapons.  The actual shot itself is just a standard delayed arty shot with no drift.  I only timed it so on most maps it looks like the plane is dropping the bomb, when it isn't.

And I'm not sure you can make bullets do FF.

[LeoPhone]

I said if it was possible, don't know why strafe never had FF, I mean talk abount uncanny accuracy from the pilot of a fast moving plane to miss all the allies on the road to kill all those grens, lol.

How much friendly fire, exactly, does your .30 cal or MG42 deal to your men near some pinned enemies? I'm pretty certain that's the reason why strafe deals no FF damage too - because it's based on bullets.

rgds say they do FF. it's under area_effect.
only no FF supression.
but strafles should have FF supression too since firestorms etc also supress your own troops.

[Groundfire]

I said if it was possible, don't know why strafe never had FF, I mean talk abount uncanny accuracy from the pilot of a fast moving plane to miss all the allies on the road to kill all those grens, lol.

im gonna interject here and say if anyone played vCoH from release to like 1.3, there was a brief point in time where friendly fire was in the game.

People threw such a fit when pathing fuck ups put their panther in the trajectory of an 88 that it was nearly moved entirely.

So yes, at one point, strafe did have FF. If you had an origional copy of vCoH from 06 you could do a fresh install and see it yourself.

Overall it's a bad idea and bad for gameplay. Especially in EIRR where quite often troops are intermingled, both between friend and enemy and friend/friend. The delay we have now, and the delay added by extended maps are so wonky that i can see many occasions where you would strafe your own teammate on accident because the plane takes so long to get there.

This is not an arty offmap, it's not that obvious when the plane will arrive or where the bullets will hit; (I will, my teammate wont know where the strafe is angled), and it isnt as precise as it should be. Therefore friendly fire should be a no no.

On any other off map aside from earthshaker, (if that exists in some form) can be nearly percision dropped in the middle of an intense fight and allow a margin of security that this an offmap that your teammates know there is a radius around the smoke that they need to avoid, and they're gonna know exactly when the shells hit.

Friendly fire is overall very bad in an RTS like this because for a certain extent, you cannot control it.

We already made this factor worse with arty drift, my teammates should not be punished by accidently walking into a strafe.

Yet, I have a right to use my offmaps wherever i want; I did pay the PPs for the ability. I should be able to use it with some security that I wont fuck up a firefight for my side by using properly.

[puddin]

I will respond to FF not being applied to Strafes.. 

Its a bad Idea? 

OK Take FF away From V1s Firestorms and Rocket barrage.  All Off maps.  Maybe just the V1 so i can run my storms in the middle of where it will hit, OR maybe my Ostwinds and take some time to Kill everything or keep it within the Kill Zone. 

So Rifles or Airborne Rifles and Come in with bars and suppress my infantry and then the plane comes and i be fucked with no recourse even if they are point blank? Because they know Bullets magically don;t hurt them?  That makes a lot of sense. 

My next post will be how to Balance Strafe and make it completely Viable on all map sizes.

[puddin]

I have the solution to this argument and you only need very minor changes. 

A.) Remove the Red Smoke so there is no Smoke
B.) Put it on a 3-5 second delay of activating the ability, So if your units are stationary, they are begging to be strafed, But people can not use it as a reactionary tool . 
c.) Give it Friendly Fire.

Why does this work? 

On small maps, people can still move around so goign the short distance would not work as well... as well as Bigger maps, the smoke would not mean much and people might consider it to be a recon. 

Also what pisses alot of axis off about strafe is that allied units run into the axis, then the strafe and bullets are called in on top of them and your like WTF...  And its a broken off map, its the only off map that does not have FF...

Amazing ho removal of Smoke, Hell Remove smoke on Bombing runs too and give them again a slight Dely of 3-5 seconds. 

Why?  OK

Easy to Implement, On the fly without much work at all correct? A simple Mini patch would work...

On top of this, People don;t move when they see planes because Recons don;t throw Smoke...  So If you remove the smoke it could be a recon, It remains Very powerful But it can not be thrown in on the edge of maps as unis walk forward because its not Instant?

I got strafed as i moved forward because the Strafe is called on And INSTANTANIOUSLY it arrives on the field and soon after fires its bullets.  BEfore the Smoke landed the Squad was killed. 

On Bigger maps, That can still happen if there is a corner or near the side of the maps...  Bombing can do the same.

No Smoke, It a recon from a distence, Maybe a Strafde, Maybe a Bomb, But in the end, you have to select the UNits, Determine the direcection of the Plane, and move the fuck otu of the way.  Thats alot to do and maybe all for a simple recon run which most AB ppl will use top their advantage... 

[gamesguy2]

That wouldn't change the fact that on small maps the plane would fire the instant it comes onto the map, and on big maps the plane would take 5 seconds to fire, giving you plenty of time to dodge.

Also plane weapons are fundamentally different from predictable arty like firestorm.  Firestorm is not on a variable timer depending on map size.

[puddin]

on small maps it would allow your moving infantry to jeep moving, Because the problem is the east to west strafes where the plane arrives but if i am moving infantry, then i can;t be strafed liek that where as Long ways i can se the plane and react. 

No fundamentals change but the concept is still solid. 

[gamesguy2]

Again, how does your proposal address the fact that strafe is still terrible on large maps?