SIR (Starcraft in Ruins)

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[Ununoctium]

I've always wondered this.
do units in starcraft have turn time? or do they just automatically move in whichever direction you point them, instantly turning or turning while the go that direction anyways?

[shockcoil]

I've always wondered this.
do units in starcraft have turn time? or do they just automatically move in whichever direction you point them, instantly turning or turning while the go that direction anyways?

In starcraft 1 I believe the only units that have this are reavers and valkyries but a lot of units in starcraft 2 have turn times.

[Ununoctium]

In starcraft 1 I believe the only units that have this are reavers and valkyries but a lot of units in starcraft 2 have turn times.

do any of these units have direction facing attacks?

also ive seen some starcraft 2 vids and some units have attacks that sweep a laser across an area. thats random in how many units it hits based on the exact nature of the blobs.

[Malevolence]

No more skilled than you have to be in any other game considering equally competitive opponents Mal.

You go to competition its a whole new ballgame with anything, like Counterstrike is very different with pub games than ladder games.

The skill required in a game is directly related to the quality of opponent you face.

And just how skillful can those opponents become? Do different games have different skill "caps" after which it is difficult to be better?

[Guderian]

do any of these units have direction facing attacks?

also ive seen some starcraft 2 vids and some units have attacks that sweep a laser across an area. thats random in how many units it hits based on the exact nature of the blobs.

??
Splash in sc is not random like coh (Roll hit etc.)
So its all up to the player facing the splash units to counter with micro

A good ability splash comparison

- Artillery (artillery landing) in coh: Random leaving dodging very much to luck

- Storms in sc1-2:
Is right on the spot where you click awarding good mouse handling and micro
Is in one constant area leaving nothing for luck and again rewarding the player with good micro being able to dodge the storm

Now I am aware that you can increase the accuracy of the artillery barrage and so forth but for pure skill play starcraft outshines
             

[Malevolence]

do any of these units have direction facing attacks?

You'll have to explain that more thoroughly. Do you mean attacks that only function when the unit is facing an enemy? Or?

also ive seen some starcraft 2 vids and some units have attacks that sweep a laser across an area. thats random in how many units it hits based on the exact nature of the blobs.

But it's not random, because all of the units are positioned as they are by the player and the beam shoots exactly the same way every time. The beam doesn't scatter up or down like a tank shell does in CoH and you don't have squad AI with one guy lagging behind checking out the scenery getting the whole 5 guys killed. It may be too much to think about in all but the most micro-iest of micro battles, but it's not random.

[Jazzhead]

But it's not random, because all of the units are positioned as they are by the player and the beam shoots exactly the same way every time. The beam doesn't scatter up or down like a tank shell does in CoH and you don't have squad AI with one guy lagging behind checking out the scenery getting the whole 5 guys killed. It may be too much to think about in all but the most micro-iest of micro battles, but it's not random.

That's just the nature of squads. Sure it can be annoying at times (1 guy out of cover gets the whole squad suppressed), but I wouldn't trade it for anything. I really hate having to build individual units or just queue up a million guys. Squad gameplay has a lot of advantages but only a few little annoyances

[fallensoldier7]

The nature of squads is random, which proves Mal's point: CoH is random while Starcraft is not, which is why Starcraft is played on a highly competitive level while CoH is not.

[Guderian]

In starcraft 1 I believe the only units that have this are reavers and valkyries but a lot of units in starcraft 2 have turn times.

Yep along with air units

[LeoPhone]

The nature of squads is random, which proves Mal's point: CoH is random while Starcraft is not, which is why Starcraft is played on a highly competitive level while CoH is not.

and thats also why CoH is better than starcraft. if u do something in starcraft wrong the 1st second of the game you have already lost.

[Guderian]

and thats also why CoH is better than starcraft. if u do something in starcraft wrong the 1st second of the game you have already lost.

You talking about a rush? Or what do you mean? It is a simple statement but in sc what do you refer to?

you do your build wrong? Your first attack goes wrong?`

Mistakes are harsh yes but a comeback is always possible

[Akranadas]

Malevolence, the reason I said; no one really cares about the Esport aspect is because the truth is written in the past. In the west, there just isn't a market for live esport board casting as their in in Korea, thats because gamers are fucking boring as shit to watch play games. Most people would prefer to spend the 30-60 mins playing the game they are watching, rather than watch it.

It has been tried and tested throughout the last decade to establish Korean style esports channels in the west (specifically America) and to no avail because it came down to it; gamers just didn't want to be feed the same repetitive programming as the Koreans do.

Is their a competitive starcraft out there? most certainly. Is it a legitimate sport? Questionable. Are they skilled at what they do? Of course. Is it iteresting to watch someone click a mouse and keyboard for the next 20 minutes? No, of course it isn't.

For esports to ever reach the peak of the Korean levels, they need to be exciting to watch; real sports have those exciting parts to it that make them entertaining, from the players, to the referees to the way its presented. Real sports are just more exciting to watch then some kids playing computer games. I know, I used to work at an Lan Cafe, and we did have competitive DoTA/WC3 matches there, and generally the only people excited about watching them play were the people playing in the match, the regular people who turned up for the competition decided to either sit around and chat with each other while waiting for their match, or go off and play some pool.

[BeRzErKeR]

Lol, off topic here but it just came to mind. What do you guys find more entertaining, watching baseball or video game shoutcast?

[Guderian]

Soccer...


We have all our preferences and prioritizes but one option does not exclude another one


Also while gaming isn't huge there are tons of sponsored players/tournaments and so forth

Also check the starcraft 2 replays on youtube with hundreds and thousands of views

plus starcraft 1 came out in 98 when quake was having great attention and after cs has nearly always dominated the European and us (Vague about us tough however halo is just taking ground everywhere there looking on us based commentaries and tournaments) pro scene
And esports?? Its going and growing especially with WoW pvp matches now being very popular
Brood war has been part of wcg since 99-2000 (came with first event)

There is a very good interview with slayer_boxer talking about it see if I can find it


Now in the end esports might not be as big as soccer or eggball but look now, even poker is becoming channels
(Who likes to watch people fiddle with cards (Simplicity is devastating))


By damn there are many people who watch

[Akranadas]

Poker is interesting to watch because the players themselves are interesting. Computer games just have people looking at a monitor and clicking a mouse and keyboard. Guitar Hero is more interesting to watch.

Watching a shoutcast is quite different from watching a televised event, you never have to see the player in a shoutcast.

[Ununoctium]

CoH mimics the randomness of people.
When you play CoH you are never in control, therefore you are always being innovative.
In starcraft you can pre-plan responses to in-game situations.

They both require innovation, but one requires more memory while the other requires more live problem-solving.
Starcraft benefits the precise, memory-based player. Remember all unit counters, armour types, upgrade indicators, micro techniques.
CoH benefits the creative, problem solver. Figure out a way to get what you want, at minimal risk, think of a contingency, which location gives me the most advantage since the map was changed.

For example;
In EiR I have some call ins that are straight up weird. scouting, jeep+ flame, mine, engi + mortar. It cannot counter anything, but it gives me the general ability to improve my defensive position, and potentially destroy others. low risk low benefit. vs a KT, high risk, high benefit

[Malevolence]

That's just the nature of squads. Sure it can be annoying at times (1 guy out of cover gets the whole squad suppressed), but I wouldn't trade it for anything. I really hate having to build individual units or just queue up a million guys. Squad gameplay has a lot of advantages but only a few little annoyances

I agree that squads are great fun but I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say I'd "not trade them for anything". They do make for great fun gameplay, but they are also frustrating. It's a matter of taking the good with the bad, I suppose.

and thats also why CoH is better than starcraft. if u do something in starcraft wrong the 1st second of the game you have already lost.

That's just not true. Nobody's perfect, only the perfect opponent could defeat you every time if you do exactly 1 thing "wrong". Besides that, "wrong" is generally subjective.

Malevolence, the reason I said; no one really cares about the Esport aspect is because the truth is written in the past. In the west, there just isn't a market for live esport board casting as their in in Korea

That's a very broad and very definite statement. I'd like some proof to back that up. If you'd prefer, I would accept a revised statement like "there has not been a large market for esports in the west as of yet" because that's making a much smaller claim.

thats because gamers are fucking boring as shit to watch play games. Most people would prefer to spend the 30-60 mins playing the game they are watching, rather than watch it.

That's another really big claim. How do YOU know that esports hasn't caught on in the west because of this one, specific, reason?

And further, let me turn this question around on you: why would most people prefer to spend the 30-60 mins playing a video game instead of watching it when they're perfectly content to spend 30-60 mins watching sports and don't go play them instead? Both are games played by highly skilled players, and both are games that anybody can go play pretty much whenever they want.

It has been tried and tested throughout the last decade to establish Korean style esports channels in the west (specifically America) and to no avail because it came down to it; gamers just didn't want to be feed the same repetitive programming as the Koreans do.

It seems to me to be catching on in popularity. Companies are becoming more willing to sponsor tournaments than ever, and we now have many esports leagues in many different games as opposed to simply the World Cyber Games like ten years ago.

Is their a competitive starcraft out there? most certainly. Is it a legitimate sport? Questionable. Are they skilled at what they do? Of course. Is it iteresting to watch someone click a mouse and keyboard for the next 20 minutes? No, of course it isn't.

You aren't supposed to be watching the player sitting in the chair... is it interesting to watch a general sit in his LMD and twiddle his thumbs or to watch the thousands of men having a big fight with lots of explosives? It'd be like watching Fight Night instead of boxing. The spectacle is boxing in either regard, but in one of them, the boxing is done by computer generated fighters. You watch the movie, not the projectionist.

For esports to ever reach the peak of the Korean levels, they need to be exciting to watch; real sports have those exciting parts to it that make them entertaining, from the players, to the referees to the way its presented. Real sports are just more exciting to watch then some kids playing computer games. I know, I used to work at an Lan Cafe, and we did have competitive DoTA/WC3 matches there, and generally the only people excited about watching them play were the people playing in the match, the regular people who turned up for the competition decided to either sit around and chat with each other while waiting for their match, or go off and play some pool.

Well, I guess that depends on your definition of exciting and your point of view. It's exciting if you think it's exciting. If I think that 20 carriers suddenly getting gosu lockdown and wraithed to death is exciting, well that's exciting. The commentators and advertisers have to sell the product for it to be successful, just like most other spectacles. The commentators and advertising have not done a good job for me, for instance, getting me to think that watching 20 men on a field putting a ball into a net is a good use of my time.

Watching a shoutcast is quite different from watching a televised event, you never have to see the player in a shoutcast.

You never have to see the player at the televised event if you look away at the right times or they just don't show the players because YOU AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE WATCHING THE PLAYERS.

*facepalm*

[Akranadas]

I agree that squads are great fun but I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say I'd "not trade them for anything". They do make for great fun gameplay, but they are also frustrating. It's a matter of taking the good with the bad, I suppose.

That's just not true. Nobody's perfect, only the perfect opponent could defeat you every time if you do exactly 1 thing "wrong". Besides that, "wrong" is generally subjective.

That's a very broad and very definite statement. I'd like some proof to back that up. If you'd prefer, I would accept a revised statement like "there has not been a large market for esports in the west as of yet" because that's making a much smaller claim.

That's another really big claim. How do YOU know that esports hasn't caught on in the west because of this one, specific, reason?

And further, let me turn this question around on you: why would most people prefer to spend the 30-60 mins playing a video game instead of watching it when they're perfectly content to spend 30-60 mins watching sports and don't go play them instead? Both are games played by highly skilled players, and both are games that anybody can go play pretty much whenever they want.

It seems to me to be catching on in popularity. Companies are becoming more willing to sponsor tournaments than ever, and we now have many esports leagues in many different games as opposed to simply the World Cyber Games like ten years ago.

You aren't supposed to be watching the player sitting in the chair... is it interesting to watch a general sit in his LMD and twiddle his thumbs or to watch the thousands of men having a big fight with lots of explosives? It'd be like watching Fight Night instead of boxing. The spectacle is boxing in either regard, but in one of them, the boxing is done by computer generated fighters. You watch the movie, not the projectionist.

Well, I guess that depends on your definition of exciting and your point of view. It's exciting if you think it's exciting. If I think that 20 carriers suddenly getting gosu lockdown and wraithed to death is exciting, well that's exciting. The commentators and advertisers have to sell the product for it to be successful, just like most other spectacles. The commentators and advertising have not done a good job for me, for instance, getting me to think that watching 20 men on a field putting a ball into a net is a good use of my time.

You never have to see the player at the televised event if you look away at the right times or they just don't show the players because YOU AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE WATCHING THE PLAYERS.

*facepalm*

Mate, I am talking about TELEVISED ESPORTS. Not people going to the WCG or someshit like that. There is a massive difference between going to an event where you can be in the atmosphere then sitting in your living room, watching it on TV.

Games don't make good TV, it's been repeated continuously throughout the last decade with the failures present.

[AmPM]

I can barely watch a shoutcast....Ok, I don't watch them, not that they are bad, just find them dull.

Now a game thats narrated and has good camera work is different.

[Akranadas]

Now a game thats narrated and has good camera work is different.

Which is why real sport is better to watch.