[us] airborne doctrine too powerful.

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[Firesparks]

The recoilless rifle penetration is too high. It's 100% against most axis armor. Even against the tiger/panther the penetration rate is still 75%. (fun fact, RR doesn't receive pen bonus for hitting the rear armor)

Even the skirt armor barely helps as the t2 at eagle pretty much negate the skirt's penetration protection. Considering that at eagle is only t2, this mean you can still get it even if you're not going easy company.

You can't kite a Airborne squad as the RR is the most accurate atw in the game (phase armor not withstanding), and they can just fire-up.

In vanilla the RR is slightly balanced by the fact that the RR deals the least damage of all the ATW and repairing any vehicle is a trivial matter, but in EIRR repairing is a major hassle. The airborne can essentially keep on run and hit once they unlock the medic, as long as they don't lose too many men. (and I've seen player keeping 1 men squad on the field. As long as there's still 2 men the Airborne squad willhave full firepower against armor). Even a mg42 can't keep away the airborne blob as they would just hit fireup. The only reliable way to wear down an airborne blob is to use tanks (RR), or sniper, but what's this? An incoming plane?

Even with the RR upgrade at 180, Most airborne player still manage to field a whole company of RR airborne. Probably help that the bar upgrade for the Airborne rifle is only 80 muntion and you would save up a bit of muntion by ditching the 57mm. With the level 3 munition advantage an airborne player can buy 13 set of RR at max. Even 6-7 is probably enough for most matches, and you're left with ~ 1200 muntion to work with.

Suggestion: decrease the at eagle bonus down to 10%, and cut the native RR penetration on a case by case basis.
(suggestion: 75% against pziv, 50% against stug, 40% against panther/tiger, 30% against jagdpanther). Give the RR increase bonus against rear armor.

[Tymathee]

RR's are fine, it's as you said, they deal low damage. Yes they penetrate a lot but they're horrible against any type of AI, machine guns, kch, lmg's, even your basic KAR rifle gren/volks can take on an AB squad 1 v 1. It's not the AB itself that's OP it's the doc abilities that really buff them up crazy as I beat most AB companies that are below level 8 but 8+ past that, they're almost unbeatable because they've got counters for everything.

i find schrecks to be more dangerous than RR's tbh. they do 120dmg and their percentages may be lower but because of the weak armor of most allied tanks and vehicles, schrecks can do a lot of damage.

[NightRain]

Strafing is the thing that makes AB quite OP. Strafe that important unit? Its gone. There's very low procent on surviving from Strafing. Snipers are the worst thing for AB, but who stops them from fielding 8 jeeps to counter those? Besides with the best Jeep ever. P47

AB gets too many buffs compared to ANY OTHER doctorine. AB is actually a AB coy, Luftwaffen is- nvm with it...

The only counter for vet 2-3 AB is a Sniper supported by 2 MGs and then comes famous Croc/M4 support. Ah well. AB has always been overly powered in EIRR environment, heck its OP in VCoH too!

[ShermanFirefly]

RR's are fine, whats about the axis shrecks, 50mm HTs which can penetrate pershings etc? Every faction has its advantages and disadvantages.

[AmPM]

Strafing and RR's are not a problem. The problem is all the buffs to AB need to be toned down. Not removed, just lowered in percentage.

[Computer991]

FFS AB isn't overpowered...Ill 1v1 anyone with a lvl 9 AB company against my tank hunters... Well it is a bit over powered but it's not from overbuffing,i guess it suffers from doctrinal synergy.


Ask [AnyABPlayer] how many times they've lost to my TH company >_>(Which i've only lost about 1 game to an AB player)....

I don't know when you play against a AB company you can't really field too many tanks,or at least that's what i've learned.

[AmPM]

Doctrinal Synergy = overbuffing...

20% penetration bonus + HP bonuses + other buffs = overbuffing.

That's what RR AB receive a good portion of the time.

[Groundfire]

common misconception. RRs hit nearly all the time, they dont penetrate all the time.

At any given point between lvl2 and lvl9 an AB company will receive at the very most, 2 doctrines that give meaningful stat buffs.

At eagles + Easy company
AT eagles + Operation Overlord

If you go Asymmetric W. you get AT eagles and AB assault grenades, which if you lose to those, it's cause your an axis player thats never had to dodge assault grenades in your life, and you dont know how to do it.

The buffs are paultry. 20% pen + 25% health/5 Los, (ok health buff is pretty damn good) and 20% pen + a small time offense bonus after paradrop. (which no one has tested b/c afaik the AB buff isnt working atm)

This is nothing. Guess what you still beat AB the same way. Flamers, pumas and big tanks

[pqumsieh]

Yea, AB does not get as many stacked buffs as people think. The biggest thing they get is the large health buff via 2 unlocks, but that is primarily only helpful vs. small arms as most tank shots still tend to gib.

PQ

[Computer991]

The buffs aren't very significant as groundfire stated...at the most they get about a 18HP boost(Per man) About the same health as a gren.. I hope AB doesn't go the same way that terror went.

[Groundfire]

you mean luft?

[shockcoil]

AB isn't overpowered. The other doctrines just suck too much

[Heartmann]

AB IS BY FAR THE EASIEST DOC TO PLAY ATM

[Firesparks]

Yea, AB does not get as many stacked buffs as people think. The biggest thing they get is the large health buff via 2 unlocks, but that is primarily only helpful vs. small arms as most tank shots still tend to gib.

PQ

There's also the +6 pop if you go easy company. There's enough for an extra squad.

common misconception. RRs hit nearly all the time, they dont penetrate all the time.

At any given point between lvl2 and lvl9 an AB company will receive at the very most, 2 doctrines that give meaningful stat buffs.

At eagles + Easy company
AT eagles + Operation Overlord

If you go Asymmetric W. you get AT eagles and AB assault grenades, which if you lose to those, it's cause your an axis player thats never had to dodge assault grenades in your life, and you dont know how to do it.

The buffs are paultry. 20% pen + 25% health/5 Los, (ok health buff is pretty damn good) and 20% pen + a small time offense bonus after paradrop. (which no one has tested b/c afaik the AB buff isnt working atm)

This is nothing. Guess what you still beat AB the same way. Flamers, pumas and big tanks

RR penetration nearly all the time against stug and pziv, and that's quite enough. Sure it doesn't penetrate all the time against tiger and panther, but the odds is that it will penetrate.
The 20% at eagle bonus is powerful enough to counter act the penetration protection from the skirt. If you compare the at eagle to the other t2 buff it's one of the best. Some t2 might have better effect, but they are usually situational. The at eagle is always on.

You also forgot the fire up bonus you get for easy company. The lack of the penalty period make it easier for the AB player to run away from enemy AI.

The buffs aren't very significant as groundfire stated...at the most they get about a 18HP boost(Per man) About the same health as a gren.. I hope AB doesn't go the same way that terror went.

ab with easy coy have ~87 heath, compared to the grenadier's 80 hp. On top of the 87hp, ab armor reduce small armor damage by 25%, and give the ab 25% dodge bonus while on the moving. An ab squad on the moving is probably the toughest squad in the game. Did I mention they get 6 men ?
The vet3 bonus also compound with the easy coy health bonus, so a vet 3 would have 96.5 hp. That's enough to survive most tank shell.

[Masacree]

Not gonna lie airborne is pretty ridiculous, especially with the free assault nades t4.

Also - ground lol I've dodged assault nades a thousand times, but that's not the issue - the issue is that EVERY single infantry squad my opponent has now has an extra fire up. It completely nullifies any support weapons and makes HMG's, my favorite counter to airborne spam, utterly useless.

[Heartmann]

There's also the +6 pop if you go easy company. There's enough for an extra squad. RR penetration nearly all the time against stug and pziv, and that's quite enough. Sure it doesn't penetrate all the time against tiger and panther, but the odds is that it will penetrate.
The 20% at eagle bonus is powerful enough to counter act the penetration protection from the skirt. If you compare the at eagle to the other t2 buff it's one of the best. Some t2 might have better effect, but they are usually situational. The at eagle is always on.

You also forgot the fire up bonus you get for easy company. The lack of the penalty period make it easier for the AB player to run away from enemy AI. ab with easy coy have ~87 heath, compared to the grenadier's 80 hp. On top of the 87hp, ab armor reduce small armor damage by 25%, and give the ab 25% dodge bonus while on the moving. An ab squad on the moving is probably the toughest squad in the game. Did I mention they get 6 men ?

+1

[Mysthalin]

Firesparks - you should actually go ahead and check out which weapons actually DO less damage versus airborne armour than vs infantry armour.

You'll be surprised once you do the check-up.

[Spartan_Marine88]

Big tip, stop trying to counter AT with tanks, 1 squad of mp 40 volks will wipe a AB squad

[DarkSoldierX]

Will it wipe that supporting sherman or croc? Will the volksgrenadier kick the grenade thrown from the AB squad/Airborn rifleman bar squad back to him? Nope.

[Firesparks]

Firesparks - you should actually go ahead and check out which weapons actually DO less damage versus airborne armour than vs infantry armour.

You'll be surprised once you do the check-up.

ab armor good against: mg42 hmg, mg42 lmg, mp40 volk, volks kar, gren kar. mp44 (partially, mp44 does full damage but the ab still get dodge bonus)....

Okay, that's virtually all the small arms used by wehr. Mortar, tank shell, and flame thrower ignore AB armor, but they are not quite counter.

Big tip, stop trying to counter AT with tanks, 1 squad of mp 40 volks will wipe a AB squad

Most AB player just rush in, destroy whatever, and then get the hell out.
Even if You didn't kill whatever, chances are it's going to need repair, while the AB player just need to heal.