The new grindless system - Factional progression (FP)

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[Unkn0wn]

Basically, this is what it comes down to.

Instead of an individual grind, you get a faction wide grind. (seperate for US/Brits/Wehr/PE)
Every game you play adds to the total level (xp/pp) of your faction, more so when you win. All players are at their faction's level.

Now a few mechanisms come into play

* The 10% rule. New profiles being created will not be set at the faction's level immediately. They will gain 10% of the faction's level each game played. This means that it will take them 10 games to be at the faction level. (We can probably work in some way to check accounts, allowing new launcher accounts to be at the faction level right away)

* Turn progression
The warmap will work with a turn system, points are gained for factions per turn. At the end of a turn, the total amount of points collected will be translated to a progression in xp/pp for the faction. However, there will be a BUFFER to prevent low-performing factions from falling behind. This means that ALL factions will receive a large enough sum each turn, but some factions that have very active and dedicated players will be able to rack up additional xp/pp for their faction. (and as a result for their own profile as well)

This means that for example the US faction could be one level above the Wehrmacht faction.
(We will make sure that the faction discrepancy is kept to a minimum)


Think of this as a sort of country 'research' system, in which all battles fought by individual players benefit their nation and their fellow countrymen.

Questions and comments are welcomed.

[Mysthalin]

To answer everybody's question : yes, switzerland is level 99 from the get go. That's why nobody's fighting it.

[LeoPhone]

so u will only get pp/xp at the end of each turn?

[nugnugx]

seems so , it cannot be in other way unless warmap would be real-time but that would be probably a headache to make.

[AmPM]

Soo....now we have to make sure our crappy players dont play at all. =)

[Unkn0wn]

It doesn't really matter, your faction gets points for every game played so a mediocre player playing a lot of games is just as useful as a good player playing only a handful.

[AmPM]

Ah, so it doesn't matter in the least and will in no way actually be usable to take advantage of having a higher faction level.

What then, is the benefit to a single player playing games if they can just wait for their faction to level up? Since factions require enemy players to make a game, this means that even with only 2-3 active players on lets say, Axis, that they will rank just as fast as Allies.

More importantly, since its the faction that ranks up, should we not then organize games where we only play one faction at a time vs mixed enemies, meaning that we will have level 9's mixed in with lower level PE vs say, level 7 Ami and Brit.

[Computer991]

What then, is the benefit to a single player playing games if they can just wait for their faction to level up?

ya know most people play the game to...you know...play the game...not to...you know..progress on the war map or level up your doctrine (To me thats just a bonus)

[AmPM]

I think you'll find many people play for the advancement.

Otherwise, may as well play vCoH.

[EIRRMod]

I think you'll find many people play for the advancement.

Otherwise, may as well play vCoH.

I agree AmPM.

Thats why there will (needs) to be some form of advancement from game to game.  Hopefully I nail it - if not, its not a hard mechanic to change back.

[lionel23]

I play for the persistancy myself.  I don't like a heavy grind (ie playing hundreds of games at 5 XP/PP just to buy a Tier ability) but I like having vetted units and working to 'build' them up.  Not so sure on the auto level up... if its going to be abused to hell like some people like Mys and others making the free lvl 5 accounts with 200 PP and griefing like crazy with oversupply units, intentionally losing games to just kill vet... well, that I have an issue with.  Isn't there a check system that can be put in to say... if you have a LVL 9 allied company, you can make another lvl 9 allied company or something? I dunno, just worried about major griefing again though it does make it nice to start a new company and not be stuck in one all the time.

[brn4meplz]

The advancement is a portion of it.

But when the same people have arguments against the deadly grind and how much it sucks you need to draw a line.

Advances to an entirely grindless system removes the motivation and determination. There are thoughts and ideas in place to help drive the feeling of accomplishment(similar to the old "The 471st Armoured and XX and XX defeated the Axis commanders of XX, XX, XX in a hard fought battle"


For obvious reason the system can't completely remove grind and still allow individual advancement. This system just allows people near the end of a war to jump onto different companies with not much of a drop off aside from veterancy and such.

Besides you can still grind cards, vet and map manipulation.

Don't ask for something other then chocolate cake and complain when we bring you Strawberry-Cocoa.

[AmPM]

EIRRMod, I always thought that more focus on veterancy, and possibly reward units being purchased in limited qualities through PP or SP would help keep the game alive even at the high end.

[Masacree]

It doesn't really matter, your faction gets points for every game played so a mediocre player playing a lot of games is just as useful as a good player playing only a handful.

Its zero-sum brah.

Soo....now we have to make sure our crappy players dont play at all. =)

So yes.

I like this system, though I liked the older idea better. The problem I see is that a faction that is slightly out of whack will tend to win the most games, and gain the most pp, further increasing their chances of winning later games (positive feedback).

But, I imagine it will not be a huge deal. Big step up from the current system!

[EIRRMod]

EIRRMod, I always thought that more focus on veterancy, and possibly reward units being purchased in limited qualities through PP or SP would help keep the game alive even at the high end.

Well thats the thing.  I dont see veterancy as the be-all and end-all of persistancy of your company.  Your units yes, company no.  So if we remove doctrines and advantages from the persistancy (ala factional) - there still needs to be something else to compensate.

Veterancy at least, other things added is what Im saying =)

[Illegal_Carrot]

Why not just remove the level requirements on all abilities/unlocks/advantages?
If you want to rush to the max bonus resources from advantages, you can so long as you have the 120 PPs required per tree, but you'll have no doctrine to support it.
If you want to rush to Pershings, you can right off the bat, but you won't have the Fu advantages to back it up.
If you want to rush to a specific T4, you can so long as you have 150 PPs, but you won't have any advantages or unlocks to go along with it.
If you want to go with a balanced progression (ie about equal PPs into Advantages, Abilities and Unlocks) you can, but you won't have T3 Advantages, T4 Doctrines/T3 Unlocks for a while.
It's really the only change needed for company progression. It allows more freedom and customization of doctrine selections and company builds, while negating the worst part of the current level system, having the PPs/SPs necessary for something, but not having a high enough level.

how about this.. we ignore AMPM like we all used to, Play the game, Have fun, and not give a shit about arguing about non issues.

How about we listen to AmPm because he's one of the most experienced and reasonable members of this community, and ignore you for attacking him based solely on personal issues and experiences.
And this isn't a non-issue, BTW. This is company progression we're talking about, the system that the entire mod is based upon.

[EIRRMod]

Carrot, those restrictions are to create a feel of intensity or timing to the war.
For example, late war, thats when you should expect the big-guns to come out.

I do see what you are saying though, and it may disappear anyway with this system

[AmPM]

Puddin, I know you are still all butt hurt because you've dropped to the level of a non-element in games due to the new way spam is controlled. But surely you must even see that if all your company progression is removed from your own hands the level of "give a shit" goes down.

When level of this finite resource drops, people go do other things, and don't play EIRR.

To get games, we need people playing, so, it is in my best interest to assure that we have more players playing at any given time. Otherwise my Tigers will die of starvation.

So, to keep players interested, we need an extended system of rewards and unlocks to keep them going. Perhaps units that are only unlockable once you meet certain doctrine requirements?

Say if you achieve Panzer Aces doctrine and a vet 3 Panther you unlock a new single unit per company Panther Ace or some such as an upgrade to your vetted Panther. It would then have another 3 vet levels along with the bonuses from the original. Things that may not be readily available, like Blitzkrieg for itself even if you don't have it unlocked. Or a Camo ambush like the M18 or some such.

The idea being, that even if playing games doesn't significantly help your company get better, retaining and gaining vet becomes more interesting, and more important.

Yes, this will make the poor players have a harder time. So you then tie in Reward Units to SP costs. Meaning, the more vet, the harder it is to get these new units assigned to you. After all, why bolster the line when you know its going to hold just fine, redirect these units to the weak points.

Who knows, its an example of how things can be added in as rewards to keep people interested

[Smokaz]

Ah, so it doesn't matter in the least and will in no way actually be usable to take advantage of having a higher faction level.

What then, is the benefit to a single player playing games if they can just wait for their faction to level up? Since factions require enemy players to make a game, this means that even with only 2-3 active players on lets say, Axis, that they will rank just as fast as Allies.

More importantly, since its the faction that ranks up, should we not then organize games where we only play one faction at a time vs mixed enemies, meaning that we will have level 9's mixed in with lower level PE vs say, level 7 Ami and Brit.

How does one side rank up faster than the other - if launcher is filled with 3 empty axis 3v3s. Wont both sides have to be present to play games?

[AmPM]

You focus one side on playing Wehr only, then you beat up mixed teams.

It advances on a faction, Wehr, PE, Brit, Ami from what they said, not Axis vs Allies.