Haystacks

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[Unkn0wn]

Yea! RTC with haystack building FJs, craaazy.

[Killer344]

when u build haystack it is not neutral/equal to world object haystack? then what is the point of it?

They should be neutral like sandbags afaik.

[bbsmith]

will be fixed in next patch.

[MultiDoc]

My Falls dont get the option to build haystacks or anything, except tank traps (although i have the T2 counter measures)

[Unkn0wn]

Post in bugs

[Illegal_Carrot]

If the enemy has the option to click on it and see its health (similar to sandbags), then it totally negates the surprise effect of it. Similarly, hay (of all things) is a pretty dumb thing for them to be plopping down, as haystacks only exist in certain sections of certain maps. 95% of the time it will be very obvious that the hay does not belong. It could even be negated by someone who simply looks around at the stacks that already exists on the map in the opening minutes of the game. Finally, they make terrible cover, as squads rarely stand entirely behind them.
Some sort of bush or shrubbery would be much more sensible and effective, yet if they gave green cover (as opposed to yellow like bushes normally do) it would again become obvious to the enemy.
So sandbags still work best.

If you want to 'effect the enemy psychologically,' then Luft should be given the ability to drop behind the enemy and sabotage enemy supply roots (with mines, demo charges, barbed wire, etc), but then they'd pretty much have to be given some sort of Fire Up like ability to escape danger, or some sort of improvement to their cloak. Pulling random bails of hay out of their ass is not the way to go.

[EliteGren]

You gotta use your head when you build haystacks, of course it will be obvious when you only build one. There are many possibilities where you can use them to confuse your enemy. Build one, hide somewhere else and he'll be suprised. If you have enough time you can just build a fuckton of them and he doesnt know behind which one your FJs are hiding.

[brn4meplz]

No point trying to educate people Elitegren, it's the Xbox generation, if people don't see immediate results or get a kill every 45 seconds they start going cold turkey.

[smurfORnot]

build wall of haystacks :p

[nugnugx]

No point trying to educate people Elitegren, it's the Xbox generation.

i heard some say that the EIR launcher is too complicated and that is why they don't play this mod  r00flez

[Groundfire]

Would be nice if you could make the haystacks garrisonable by like snipers and stuff. That would be fun to use 

[smurfORnot]

lol,just imagine,you have whole unit garisoning haystack,and then tank comes roling over it ...splat...lol

[TheIcelandicManiac]

lol,just imagine,you have whole unit garisoning haystack,and then tank comes roling over it ...splat...lol

that would be hilarious

[Illegal_Carrot]

No point trying to educate people Elitegren, it's the Xbox generation, if people don't see immediate results or get a kill every 45 seconds they start going cold turkey.

It's not a matter of 'I AM A SIMPLE PLEBEIAN I MUST GET INSTANT GRATIFICATION.' Literally everyone will instantly be able to counter this ability by either looking around the map at the start of a game, or even just playing a map enough so that they know where haystacks are and aren't.

Even if you put haystacks everywhere to confuse your opponent (which in itself is absurd), they can still just mortar the area (thus screwing you over), set up an HMG covering the haystacks as they advance (thus screwing you over), bring in armor to counter your FJs (thus screwing you over) or avoid the ambush zone entirely (thus screwing you over). Even if they try to engage you head on, haystacks are terrible, so it'll be very difficult to get every man into cover/cloak (which will, in turn, screw you over).

If you build them hoping that your opponent will run away due to their irrational fear of hay, that still takes all the decision making away from you, and puts the fate of the battle squarely into the hands of your opponent.

The best uses I could think of for this would be some sort of infantry blocking that can't be cut my Engineers, or an early warning system against vehicles with medium crush. Both of which make no sense and are against the spirit of the ability in the first place.

[smurfORnot]

give em sight like gliders have/had

[AmPM]

Make it a bunker with a different graphic =)

That would be epic.

[Katusha]

my falls can't build anything, is that caused by my not having opposing fronts? i thought i just couldn't use offmaps

[Unkn0wn]

Build menus are unavailable when you play OF factions without OF as well.
AFAIK anyway. You should really purchase OF sometime, I'm sure you can find it for 5 - 10 bucks.

[Smokaz]

It's not a matter of 'I AM A SIMPLE PLEBEIAN I MUST GET INSTANT GRATIFICATION.' Literally everyone will instantly be able to counter this ability by either looking around the map at the start of a game, or even just playing a map enough so that they know where haystacks are and aren't.

Even if you put haystacks everywhere to confuse your opponent (which in itself is absurd), they can still just mortar the area (thus screwing you over), set up an HMG covering the haystacks as they advance (thus screwing you over), bring in armor to counter your FJs (thus screwing you over) or avoid the ambush zone entirely (thus screwing you over). Even if they try to engage you head on, haystacks are terrible, so it'll be very difficult to get every man into cover/cloak (which will, in turn, screw you over).

If you build them hoping that your opponent will run away due to their irrational fear of hay, that still takes all the decision making away from you, and puts the fate of the battle squarely into the hands of your opponent.

The best uses I could think of for this would be some sort of infantry blocking that can't be cut my Engineers, or an early warning system against vehicles with medium crush. Both of which make no sense and are against the spirit of the ability in the first place.

Another ignorant post by carrot. Can I collect and trade them in for some more PPs?

You fail to take in consideration what basic addition is. It's allowing fallschirms to make some cover for themselves. Hey it's not very realistic when a haystack spawns from nowhere in a city map. But in fact it's more flavorful than giving them sandbags and wire. It's pretty genious really, and it allows a unit which loves to be in cover to construct it's own. What's there to dislike?

Criticising players for not charging units in cover and blaming the doctrine choice for it makes no sense at all. I'm sorry but how is mortaring a haystack any different from mortaring camping volks behind sandbags? Or sending tanks to deal with infantry in cover who is not covered by AT? This is just ridicolous, nothing you say here is specificly a weakness of the doctrine ability.

haystacks are terrible, so it'll be very difficult to get every man into cover/cloak (which will, in turn, screw you over).

Hah! Just from this I can tell you haven't seen how the ability works out. Say hello to perfect amount of guys in cover. I even trapped myself in haystacks once. Go try it before you cry more.

[LeoPhone]

haystacks r epic cover. light vehicles cant crush em.