The Hotchkiss is UP

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[Artekas]

ATGs and tanks what? Rely on scatter? Not really. RRs are pathetic in every factor but scatter. They have quite low damage, average penetration, and have similar slow rate of fire and low accuracy as other handheld AT, yet they come at a premium of 90 munitions per. Without taking scatter into account they're significantly worse than zooks for cost. However, because they have such low scatter they have SIGNIFICANTLY better actual accuracy than other handheld AT, except against Puma phase armour.

ATGs have a somewhat low scatter as well, although it's not quite as low as RRs and they don't rely on it at all, considering their base accuracy isn't atrocious. Tanks are bad when it comes to scatter, and rely on their base accuracy or splash damage to hit things.

[Mysthalin]

I meant to say pumas dodge quite a bit of scattered tank and ATG shells .

[11on2d6]

That because the puma has a very small hit box though isnt it? which the hotchkiss presumably doesnt...meaning the puma dodges more than its 0.8 incoming accuracy would suggest.

[Mysthalin]

I'd say hotchkiss is actually smaller. Thing is, puma is told in the RGDs to phase missed, but scattered into the puma shots. The hotchkiss clips with those same shots, though.

[Artekas]

No, it doesn't dodge more than its incoming accuracy would suggest. Once again, only things that would register as misses count as misses, so Pumas will still get hit 75% or 80% of the time regardless, as registered hits have nothing to do with phase armour.

I'm not 100% sure but I do think the cause of Puma phase armour is the extremely small hitbox, basically nonexistent so when a shot goes from the Puma model it doesn't actually hit the Pumas hitbox so the game doesn't count it as hitting even though you saw it just fly through the Puma model.

[Killer344]

Fixing the puma phase armor would take about 10 seconds of RGD work, the hitbox isn't the cause.

Gamesguy proved it sometime ago.

[11on2d6]

Ya, it's 5:30Am here and I must be heading off, but tomorrow I'll post the vid.

I'll post more tomorrow, but real quick at Artekas: the extra range and slight extra damage honestly mean dick all on the Hotch despite what you may think (and those benefits literally don't exist on the 37mm Hotch), and the Puma actually has better armor in some situations. That leaves RoF, penetration and decel.

However, you seem to discount the Puma's advantages more than you should: that 10 extra HP means you can take two 57mm shells or four Bazooka hits and keep going (+ survive to repair). Couple that with a x.75 dodge bonus, and you can effectively take 6.25 Bazooka hits or 3-4 ATG shots, vs 4 and 2, respectively, on the the Hotch.
Speed and acceleration also are a huge advantage, as the less time you spend in an AT unit's range/LoS, the greater your chances of survival. When you get two-shot by just about everything, you need to be able to get the fuck out of dodge real quick. If you played PE, you'd know this.

We're not making shit up just to fuck with you dude, these are regular occurrences with the Hotchkiss. The sooner you understand the fact that anecdotal evidence does having some bearing in these discussions, the sooner people will take you more seriously here. Understanding how things work on-paper is great, but things often play out differently in-game, and it's not all just luck.

Hey man you still got those video's you were talking about? I still want to push this issue to try and get more exposure, I keep getting people in the launcher agree that this unit is poor, its just a matter of bringing them into the discussions now. The more vids we get up the better our case will be.

[8thRifleRegiment]

lmao the hotch is trash, whats the point of useing them when every single form of AT simply crushes them. "ohhh use them for heavy tanks" lmao dont gimme that bullshit, how the hell is any hotch gunna deal with a pershing when it has atgs around it, like it normally... does. and even if you get the pershing alone, simple micro and both yer hotch are gone without dealing that much damage to the pershing.

[salan]

lmao the hotch is trash, whats the point of useing them when every single form of AT simply crushes them. "ohhh use them for heavy tanks" lmao dont gimme that bullshit, how the hell is any hotch gunna deal with a pershing when it has atgs around it, like it normally... does. and even if you get the pershing alone, simple micro and both yer hotch are gone without dealing that much damage to the pershing.

ya that one did seem like a knee jerk 'fix' eh?

[Unkn0wn]

This isn't a freaking kindergarten, thread cleaned.
If you can't stick to the forum guidelines, don't bother posting.