Pershing HE rounds

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[frsd]

57mm have always been facerapping 50mm's in a straightforward fight do to its damage being higher and it strangely having a way higher accuracy.

With a 57mm at full health and a 50mm at full health 57mm will win 99% of the time.

[Hicks58]

Hmm ok, but lets let go of the fantasy world where a Pershing sits alone on the map without any support in it's sector. Load up the AP rounds on your 57mm and you can forget the part about charging with the panther. Handheld AT can be used against standard pershings, also when a standard pershing drives up infornt of an AT gun, well the AT gun is not gonna die without leaving its mark. HE rounds and woosh take it out from middle range with 1 shot.

Outranging will mostly mean you'll have to play defensive and youd need to throw in alot of pop to counter that 1 Pershing and needing to make sure you dont get run over by rifles.

Sigh, and you shouldn't be throwing a single unit at it either. In that game, I saw no more than two tanks approach my Pershing. You even RUSHED your Pak40 at my Pershing for crying out loud.

I had a Sniper, Pershing, 57mm. You could have used a Panther, backed up by a Pak40, and a bike on standby for the Sniper, or to block the Pershing to stop it getting away. Throw in a mortar for the 57mm if you cant counter-snipe it with your better ATG.

Oh, and a standard Pershing COULD drive up to a Pak38, fire one shot, and decrew it. It doesn't need HE rounds to pull that off, it just does so more frequently... And HE rounds can miss infantry, it did a few times that game.

[105TigerHunters]

Oh dear, please someone watch the replay of the game we just had, that replay will show you the continuous rushing of infantry vs a pershing, HE or not you should not be throwing that much infantry against it, i must agree with the light vehicle issues it shouldnt be that effective and this needs to be looked into, but hopeing inf charge after charge is gona beat a last tier vehicle is quite intresting.

I suggest playing against this ability once more but with the use of paks/75 that are not unsupported by light vehicles or AI infantry.

If i whined the amount of times i lost to an axis ability that i didnt know how to counter i would have threads up faster then you did...

[frsd]

The pak 40 that suicided at your Persh was recrewed by Lothan who is new. A bike as a counter to a sniper while an ATG is there isnt best, you also forgot all those nice RR Rangers that were around. Normal pershing might decrew but will with high chance hit the Pak itself either destroying it or just doing damage.

[BigDick]

Btw, the HE Pershing has to switch to AP to be effective against tanks, which means waiting a full reload cycle to fire again - That can also be exploited by throwing your tanks in first, THEN supporting with AT infantry so I have to make an active choice.

wait a minute are you saying that you don't even need to wait for a 60 sec cooldown or something to hit the toggle button again? All downside are some seconds for reload?
please tell me thats a fucking joke isn't it? 

[Hicks58]

The pak 40 that suicided at your Persh was recrewed by Lothan who is new. A bike as a counter to a sniper while an ATG is there isnt best, you also forgot all those nice RR Rangers that were around. Normal pershing might decrew but will with high chance hit the Pak itself either destroying it or just doing damage.

RR Rangers? Since when did Rangers get RRs? Airborne get RR's Frsd, not Rangers.

You know, that makes me wonder if your at all sure of what the Allies have in their entirety.

HE Pershings are not uncounterable beasts. I've played a game against decent Axis players who have completely locked down my HE Pershings, and they got relatively few kills.

[BigDick]

actually its called airborne rangers after playing this game so long you should know about the units 

[Tymathee]

Oh dear, please someone watch the replay of the game we just had, that replay will show you the continuous rushing of infantry vs a pershing, HE or not you should not be throwing that much infantry against it, i must agree with the light vehicle issues it shouldnt be that effective and this needs to be looked into, but hopeing inf charge after charge is gona beat a last tier vehicle is quite intresting.

I suggest playing against this ability once more but with the use of paks/75 that are not unsupported by light vehicles or AI infantry.

If i whined the amount of times i lost to an axis ability that i didnt know how to counter i would have threads up faster then you did...

why shouldn't it do so well against light vehicles? It can't attack armor, but most light vehicles against tank guns have like a 10 penetration rate against them, so even if you lower it to .25 vs light vehicle armor, it'll still get through.

plus, it's a high explosive round, it should absolutely rape light vehicles.

[105TigerHunters]

why shouldn't it do so well against light vehicles? It can't attack armor, but most light vehicles against tank guns have like a 10 penetration rate against them, so even if you lower it to .25 vs light vehicle armor, it'll still get through.

plus, it's a high explosive round, it should absolutely rape light vehicles.

The issue is because the pershing can switch between both AP and HE rounds once the doctrines chosen, being able to just use HE to take out inf/support and light vehicles ontop is abit overkill, it should atleast have to switch back to AP to take down "vehicles" or effectivly anyway.

Im sure HE round would realisticly zing pow rape light vehicles but unfortunatly its about balance rather then about how it "should" be.

Find away to tweak the HE rounds vs light vehicles and "maybe" personaly i dont think its needed but would help with the whines, increase the time taken to reload/switch ammo type by 10 seconds? after that i dont see the issue.

[Tymathee]

seriously? pershings rape light vehicles anyway. it does 137.5 damage.

Health
armored car 220
vamp 285
hotch 300
inf ht 300
lat 285
marder 375
muni 360
scout car 260
wehr ht 315
puma 310

all of these vehicles will go down in 2-3 hits by a pershing.

[AmPM]

Put in HE round, reduce accuracy, reduce scatter angle. More effective vs infantry, less effective vs vehicles.

[DarkSoldierX]

And put it on cooldown?

[Illegal_Carrot]

And put it on cooldown?

Just like the Marder's Site main Gun, or the IST's Rapid Fire; except with a bit more cooldown.

[Hicks58]

Theres a slight problem with that... Marders can still fire while waiting on that cooldown, IST's can still fire while waiting on that cooldown.

Pershings could still fire, but they'd be screwed if they had the wrong ammo loaded and they had to go and wait 10-20 seconds to do something about that Panther that's kicking you about.

IST's might be immobile, but they can still attack whatever is attacking them to whatever degree they might be able to, immobile or not. Same thing applies to Marders. Pershings however... Well, look at the example above. Loading HE rounds would become a liability rather than an advantage - At the moment waiting a single reload cycle makes changing ammo a dangerous task in the heat of combat. What's gonna happen if you get flanked or ambushed? A normal or HVAP Pershing will point at It's target and fire to full effect. A HE Pershing will be essentially defenseless while waiting.

[11on2d6]

Theres a slight problem with that... Marders can still fire while waiting on that cooldown, IST's can still fire while waiting on that cooldown.

Pershings could still fire, but they'd be screwed if they had the wrong ammo loaded and they had to go and wait 10-20 seconds to do something about that Panther that's kicking you about.

IST's might be immobile, but they can still attack whatever is attacking them to whatever degree they might be able to, immobile or not. Same thing applies to Marders. Pershings however... Well, look at the example above. Loading HE rounds would become a liability rather than an advantage - At the moment waiting a single reload cycle makes changing ammo a dangerous task in the heat of combat. What's gonna happen if you get flanked or ambushed? A normal or HVAP Pershing will point at It's target and fire to full effect. A HE Pershing will be essentially defenseless while waiting.

Ive seen people move up the lockdown marders IST's, just as rifles appeared at their los, and stickied them because they couldnt move...similar sort of thing.

Though for a pershing, due to its cost and such if it did have CD to swap between them , it should be closed to 7-10s than 20. 20 would be far too long.

[Illegal_Carrot]

Marders and ISTs are completely immobile while stuck in the lock down state. While they can shoot back, more often than not they are stuck useless vs armor or ATGs until the cooldown wears off and they can move again. You've got to know when it is or isn't safe to activate the ability, and you have to support your assets.

It'd be the same with the Pershing, except you could still escape a bad situation. You'd still have to support you units, but a slight (7-8 second) penalty would mean you wouldn't have Pershings immediately switching types of rounds every other shot to instantly engage other threats.

[Tymathee]

but is it really that OP? are you thinking it's OP in theory or are you watching the replay. (this is to everyone saying change it not last post)

[Hicks58]

Ah well, I'm sure the ability will get nerfed to non-usable levels soon enough.

Merry Christmas people.

[poyrazthewicked]

I am using HE persh too, but I dont agree that accuracy against LV...

It is same as normal or I couldn't handle to hunt down LV with my persh...


-wickY26

[Grundwaffe]

Well i dont want to rate this ability til i have tried HEAT rounds, how is this compared?