new brand OFF-MAPS...

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[Smokaz]

Unknown. One beef here.

Smokaz picks commando sniper. He pays exorbiant price for it. Commando sniper adds a nice capability to his company.

Smokaz2 picks typhoon. He sacrifices no resources for its use, and typhoon can destroy stuff without the use of "company resources".

You see the alluded problem here 

[Unkn0wn]

But why can you destroy stuff with the typhoon rocket strike? Probably because the call-in timer is too low and it's too easy to kill things with it. It shouldn't be a no-brainer instakill tank button.

I suppose you could argue some off-maps having a cost, but then you'd also have to make sure they are more effective. Since no one will invest munitions in an off-map that is easily dodged. And then drift is certainly a no-no. And I really doubt the last thing anybody here wants is more effective off-maps. Even if you paid 200 munitions for an off-map, if it's killing a large group of units, it's going to be equally annoying and frustrating to play against.

[Smokaz]

Which to me means that it has to balanced to near uselessness, when it already sux balls on bigger maps against quick players.

[jackmccrack]

if offmaps are switched to munitions cost then everyone will choose munitions advantages.

[smurfORnot]

arent most axis already choosing munition advantages?

[RikiRude]

Muni costs on off-maps won't work anyway, we've tried this in the past (2008 if I recall correctly) and there is a good reason why we moved away from it. I would like to try and actually make progress, not waste time on something we've already tried in the past.

The problem with off-maps
- Too many uses, i.e with current PPs and all lvl 9 profiles, everyone just gets max every game.
- DRIFT. This makes off-maps unpredictable, where as you SHOULD be able to always avoid an off-map provided you react in time. There is 'call-in time' for a reason, it gives you several seconds, which is sufficient, to react. If you fail to react, it's your own fault. With drift, you may react in time but still randomly get hit, making the use of 'call-in timers' moot. Off-maps shouldn't be some kind of lottery.
- Fix remaining call-in timers that are too short, some off-map times are still off. Though the recent increase to infantry & defensive off-maps was a step in the right direction.

Doing all of the above will fix most of the problems with off-maps currently. And then on top of that we can still consider attaching off-maps to an on-map unit. Though I'm personal of the opinion that probably wouldn't be necessary.

I think right now the uses are fine for the most part, just many of them need more or less uses. No off map should have more than 4 uses and off maps like V1 should be capped at 1, but should have no drift and more damage.

Drift is just stupid I agree with everything you say about it, it's lame for both parties.

Call in timers are def off, would be happy to see them fixed and balanced.

WP needs to be 4 uses in its current state with them costing 2/4/8 SP for each extra use, it's pretty much like a strafing run with like 4 stewart shots.

V1 and lancaster could be changed, make V1 capable of destroying any building in one go, so it spells doom for howies/triage that's exactly what it should be made for. make lancaster do less damage, but have it with much bigger splash.

Most other off maps I think are fine, its just the timing that needs to be switched. also it's not fair that PE gets an offmap that's the same as CW, but it gets fire added. if it gets fire added, then its initial damage should be less, but im pretty sure it does the same amount of damage on top of having fire.

[Tymathee]

ok, change it to PP's then, ditch SP's, lower cost. There needs to be like some type of choice here. 20 sp's is at least 2-3 games depending on the off map and its only one game to regain enough PP to get those 20. It's a win win to me.

also maybe more choices to spend PP/SP on would help.

[NightRain]

Offmaps shouldn't be INSTAKILL LOL like things. US Offmap Arty or Earthshaker. BOOM Both the crew and the gun goes boom. BOOM same thing for mortar and so on.

[Smokaz]

What about removing offmaps as unlocks, and instead have them be warmap cards??

[Tymathee]

get rid of all off maps, give each doctrine an on-map unit which can fire a normal arty barrage be it shell or rocket and leave it there.

If you really want to make it fun have that on map unit have an ability to fire an off map type barrage thats infinite ranged with a long cooldown or uses

[RikiRude]

i absolutely don't agree with tym, i think unknown hit it on the head.

i would like to see off maps tied to on map units, but until that happens I think unknown has it down.

Offmaps shouldn't be INSTAKILL LOL like things. US Offmap Arty or Earthshaker. BOOM Both the crew and the gun goes boom. BOOM same thing for mortar and so on.

not to mention PE off maps where the fire will kill the gun too.

but to be honest i think off maps SHOULD do that, 1-2 a game it's not too bad. Maybe just earth shaker, v1 lancaster, henchel, should all just be one use. things like fire storm and some other offmaps should be 2. abilities like blitzkrieg are good at 4 uses.

my opinion is too many things are just mirrors of other things in uses and what they do, there should be something that makes each off map unique.

[Tymathee]

i think one of the bigger isssues is having more than one arty type off map like rca does

[Mysthalin]

RCA offmaps are shit anyway, tbh.

[IJustDontCare]

Perhaps make off maps do some damage, but be more suppressive than damaging.

[Demon767]

RCA offmaps are shit anyway, tbh.

your shit.

[tank130]

When given the choice between off-maps or upgrades, people generally always chose the latter.

If people chose more upgrades and less off maps, wouldn't it take care of this problem....

They are having issues with off-maps because they are too plentiful......... 

Reducing drift and making them less erratic would be making them more of an I win button as well.

Looks to me like we should possibly reduce drift (most popular idea) and add munitions cost and max 2-3 uses. If the 2008 data is correct, we will see less offmaps, but the ones we see will be more accurate, but at a higher costs.

That follows our cost / reward philosophy doesn't it?

[AmPM]

I haven't had an issue dodging an offmap in a long time.

[Smokaz]

RCA offmaps are shit anyway, tbh.

your dropping them to bail you out, you should drop them when the situation itself calls for it. i mean you even artied 1 gren squad attacking a sapper

[smurfORnot]

I haven't had an issue dodging an offmap in a long time.

I had with some,dunno which,RCA maybe,enemy throws them on pak,I order it immediately to move,pak ofcourse makes a single wrong step,crew dies,and the gun itself also dies.

[Mysthalin]

your dropping them to bail you out, you should drop them when the situation itself calls for it. i mean you even artied 1 gren squad attacking a sapper

2 Squads, and there was nothing else I could bring in at the time to protect the 25pdr that lay beyond.