Why I lose.

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[PonySlaystation]

This thread is about this replay and tank starts in general.

Yes how you use it is important and so is micro. But that's only so much you can do. If a player really sets out to counter your tank then it's not likely to survive more than the first two minutes.

In any case, tank start is nothing I would recommend for a new player like rifle.

Light tank spam is not a normal strategy and they have been nerfed pretty bad. You don't need a Medium or Heavy tank to counter this strategy. A few fausts, mines, storms or extra atg works well.

I have seen so many tank starts fail and so few actually accomplish something. Most of the time the tanks got 1-2 kills for the cost of maybe a pershing or something equally expensive.

[panzerman]

tiger + pio spam with goliath works well

i have used that a couple times it rapes,
i have seen 2 upgun shermans destroy start callins

helps to have some doct buffs to benefit from.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

having a churchill with an command tank and an atgun by its side with a piat squad and a bren mg car is an exelent way to combat most starting spams that the axis might trow at you ofcourse it wont make exxelent aggressive start but it makes the possebility of fighting wolks with panzer fausts quite hard but not imbosseble due to that they penetrait every time and sence the command tank cant crush you wont be able to run away from it but with the command tank and tank shock makes the churchilll an allmost 1 shot kill hit on inf but but fighting KCH is still annoying as hell due to the faqt that they dont suppress my tankshock.

[PonySlaystation]

And I can say the same thing, I've probably seen about 1000 churchill starts fail more than I've seen any of them actually do something. So unless you have any actual evidence like a replay, stop making useless replies.

[Unkn0wn]

Removed trolls

[RoyalHants]

my old crommies starts often ended well if not okay

[Malgoroth]

Well, I always thought the whole point of a tank start was for the extra mobility so you could rush the opposing team. In this replay they didn't quite stick together and rush one spot, they went about halfway across the map in front of their respective spawn points and... stopped. Any aggression seemed half-hearted.

But that makes or breaks any start really... How aggressive you're willing to be. With a tank start it's easier to take the initiative and hit those weak spots, but it does take a fair amount of skill/micro. I guess it basically comes down to personal preference. And, of course, how communicative your team is.

[PonySlaystation]

Alright, let me rephrase again.

Tank start is a huge gamble, it's very risky and most of the time it fails badly. It still doesn't suck however, I just don't personally like it, especially not heavy tanks. If you think it's a good idea then fine

It can also be noted that this strategy works better in larger games, 3v3, 4v4 etc.

But most importantly it's not something I would advice a new player like rifle to do, like this thread is about.

His croc got 2 kills and I'm 100% sure starting with a quad or mg would have been better in his case.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

why should anyone start with a crock?
those things are expensive and the pop is huge and it requiers alot of support to work properly.

[AmPM]

Double Stormie + Panther used to work well, havent tried it forever though.

Also, Tiger + Mortar + PaK was fun if your teammate knew ahead of time.

Dual P4/Sherm/Crom/Church probably works most of the time, just expect their next callin to be heavy AT.

[BigDick]

why should anyone start with a crock?
those things are expensive and the pop is huge and it requiers alot of support to work properly.

sherman (churchill armored in eir) crocs as in the replay?

they are pretty good because if you face a tank start hater like ponyslaystation you could steamroll him because shreks and a pak is not on the list of hardcounters to it

and its 200fuel 10 pop only

croc+atg +2 rifles = win against wehrmacht without tanks in core

[Killer344]

croc+atg +2 rifles = win against wehrmacht without tanks in core

l2p as wher maybe?

[BigDick]

l2p as wher maybe?

i usually don't play wher (ok i consider playing wehr again and played about 1 game last month as wehr) but my crocs in my armor company did quite impressive

[Demon767]

You are likely to face tank reaping combos like
bren carrier + bren lmg + piats + atg + more
schreck storms + pak + more
50mm + marder + shreck halftrack + more
halftrack + rifle sticky + atg + rangers + more

jeeze all those can be countered by a tank start
and wth who is gonna start with 50mm, marder and shrek. push up atg and get your infantry to screen with your tank supporting your ATG. stop playing dumb

[PonySlaystation]

A tank can not counter any of those. A tank is severely less firepower than having more units.

It doesn't have to be in the start, it's a 5 pop unit.

Marder and shreck start is probably the most common start call-in there is.

So no, your reply doesn't really make any sense. At all.

Playing dumb? Yeah I'm very dumb for thinking that tanks and snipers need support to work, I mean why use combined arms when you can solo everything with your tank, Yeah I think not.

[Demon767]

so you are playing dumb cuz i never said anything about soloing with tanks

[PonySlaystation]

That's exactly what you said. Tank start leaves you 9-14 pop. That's a lot right? an entire army right there, you only need a few engineers to support your tanks right? I mean why have more when I can have less?

And stop fucking around with pedobears.

[Demon767]

a 10 - 12 pop unit that can counter

1) tanks
2) Infantry
3) LV

everyone else has already stated in this thread that tanks work
you know what, stuff it, we know your wrong. get over it.
from the wise words of bigdick, l2p skill less nub

[PonySlaystation]

You know you talk a lot, but do you actually play this mod? When you do you don't really amount to anything so that's why you come here and make these ridiculous statements right?

A 10 pop unit that can counter both infantry, tanks and light vehicles. Which tank is that again? Oh wait there is none.

Have you even seen the replay? one of the major reasons why they lost was because they started with tanks. Or even read what I wrote before? Keep on topic will you?

l2p? yeah that's funny stuff, you can say that when you beat me.

[Mysthalin]

A 10 pop unit that can counter both infantry, tanks and light vehicles. Which tank is that again? Oh wait there is none.

Hetzer with amazing main gun, MG and armour.

M10 with amazing main gun and mobility.

Both 10 popcap.

You're looking at one single replay where the players using the tanks are far from the EiRR average. Good players find excellent use out of a tank in their starting callins. Look up "Burning Church" shoutcast for a double croc start (sherman crocs, not churchil) that actually did pretty damn amazing - especially considering it went up against a very heavily mobilised PE start.