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[Uglysori]

Jumbo is fine, it is the entire definition of a balanced unit. If anything it's the cost, but I consider the unit to be perfectly balanced ingame. Stop arguing about it already.

The best counter is still with tanks btw, if you haven't already realized this it's pretty much like the IST, can't do shit against tanks. Even upgun pumas can kill it easily.

Err how does an upgun puma kill a Jumbo easily? Especially given the low dmg of the 50mm puma, less than half the health, and 10% less dmg it does to panther skirt armor?  It's certainly possible if u can block and avoid the turret rotation. But I wouldn't define it as easy especially given the amt of time it would take to kill the Jumbo, other support could arrive.

[RikiRude]

Just had a game where i saw a jumbo penetrating jagpanther front armor from long range.

I once saw an eng bounce an ostwind round.

[Malgoroth]

Tym, you've been playing long enough to know the amount of vet 3 units does not correlate to that units effectiveness. How many vet M10's are there? Are you going to tell me that the M10 is a bad tank because of this? Even better, how many vet 3 pershings exist in eir? Are you going to claim those are weak too?

It sounds like you just want it easier. You can play sloppy with a Jumbo and do fine, but god forbid you use a regular sherman and actually have to micro. Everything penetrates PIVs but you don't see the devs giving defensive doctrine PIV Jumbos do you? Wehrmacht players can support their infantry just fine with a PIV which loses 1 on 1 with a 76 sherman, so why is a 76 sherman not a good enough support tank for infantry?
Your "because stuff can actually penetrate it!" argument isn't gonna fly.

[Demon767]

^ +1

[Tymathee]

Tym, you've been playing long enough to know the amount of vet 3 units does not correlate to that units effectiveness. How many vet M10's are there? Are you going to tell me that the M10 is a bad tank because of this? Even better, how many vet 3 pershings exist in eir? Are you going to claim those are weak too?

I didn't quote the number of vet 3 units to show unit effectiveness, I quoted the number of vet 3 units to show how two similar tanks how the one you tell me i should use instead of a jumbo is underperformed.

The fact is, the number of vetted units correlates exactly to their survivability, not so much effectiveness. If all I wanted was a bunch of throw away shermans yeah i can do that but I dont want a bunch of throw away shermans, i want a tank that can last

It sounds like you just want it easier. You can play sloppy with a Jumbo and do fine, but god forbid you use a regular sherman and actually have to micro. Everything penetrates PIVs but you don't see the devs giving defensive doctrine PIV Jumbos do you? Wehrmacht players can support their infantry just fine with a PIV which loses 1 on 1 with a 76 sherman, so why is a 76 sherman not a good enough support tank for infantry?
Your "because stuff can actually penetrate it!" argument isn't gonna fly.

Actually, I dont play sloppy with a Jumbo, I play quite conservative and they last a long time. Do you notice the sig? Yeah thats my vet 3 jumbo which now has 400 xp, you can't get 400 xp on a unit playing sloppily, you get there with good/great micro management.

Actually WM does get jumbos, they're called Panthers, Tigers and King Tigers.

[Demon767]

Actually WM does get jumbos, they're called Panthers, Tigers and King Tigers.

Prove that point please.

[NightRain]

Prove that point please.

ololo ATGs never had any issues penetrating these mofos. PAK's first shot pouncing off from a Jumbo however makes me giggle.

[Demon767]

ololo ATGs never had any issues penetrating these mofos. PAK's first shot pouncing off from a Jumbo however makes me giggle.

That is what i'm hinting at.

[BigDick]

I didn't quote the number of vet 3 units to show unit effectiveness, I quoted the number of vet 3 units to show how two similar tanks how the one you tell me i should use instead of a jumbo is underperformed.

i feel the contradiction

Do you notice the sig? Yeah thats my vet 3 jumbo which now has 400 xp

q.e.d.

tym with such high exp unit clearly prove its OPness

ololo ATGs never had any issues penetrating these mofos. PAK's first shot pouncing off from a Jumbo however makes me giggle.

to put it into numbers

its first strike buffed penetration is below 50% (depends on range but most times 41%) all other hits bounce around 4 out of 5 times

some mofos just don't realize (or they don't want to) that coh armor is not a equation of armor type alone but of weapons targeting it

i can break the weapon tables and let jeeps bouncing KT/Jagd shots 99% of time while they still get killed in notime by small arms

[Tymathee]

oh forget it i'm tired of you freakin trolls. None of you have made one concise argument on why the Jumbo is an issue other than "omg it bounces shots"

what you dont' get is that i'm actually willing to listen to your argument if you could actually prove anything but you haven't, all it sounds like is you don't like the fact that an allied tank bounces shots like many axis tanks do cuz you're not used to it.

As a majority allied player i've played against tanks bouncing my freakin shots, just soaking up damage for over 3 years and to finally get one that's not a pershing is nice and even then it's got an "alright" 75mm gun

Where were you when there were scores of Tiger companies being played huh? Oh wait, they're an axis unit and allies blob so omg, they NEED the Tiger, and you all have Tigers cuz of the Pershings, oh right :|

i Loved the fact that in the midst of the massive playing of tiger companies someone tried to nerf hvap, which is the one doc buff that could really combat the Tigers yet you saw no one creating threads about the Tiger. Its just crap

[nugnugx]

Tym if 10 people are telling you it's not ok, and you tell us it's ok. Wouldn't you think that problem is with you and not with us ?  

No one is trolling. You are not the center of EIRs attention that everyone here is to troll you. Specific thread is for specific reasons and that's all there is to this thread.

[AmPM]

Ummm....

Tigers are balanced around being more powerful than a Pershing.

Lets take the most powerful Tiger; German Engineering, HEAT, Panzer Aces

Still loses to an HVAP Pershing, HVAP Pershing costs less, also vastly increases abilities of all your other tanks.

Makes it a much much better buff and makes your Armor company vastly superior to a dual T3 (which by design are supposed to be equal to a t3/t4; dont ask me why) Armor focused Blitz Coy.

HVAP is just one of the best T4's in the game, and is not situational at all.

I personally think that HVAP should go back to being a timer again. That version was a lot of fun, and required some more micro.

[BigDick]

even then it's got an "alright" 75mm gun

"alright"? the 75mm is by far the best main battle tank gun in COH
ok since some fucking around with stats in eir the 76mm is better because it got no drawbacks for its awesome improved penetration

[Tymathee]

Tym if 10 people are telling you it's not ok, and you tell us it's ok. Wouldn't you think that problem is with you and not with us ? 

No one is trolling. You are not the center of EIRs attention that everyone here is to troll you. Specific thread is for specific reasons and that's all there is to this thread.

no dude, when the majority of people who are saying i'm wrong are noted axis players, i dont count it at all.

You, ampm, and bigdick post in every freakin thread i post in, so yes you are freakin trolls.

[nugnugx]

no dude, when the majority of people who are saying i'm wrong are noted axis players, i dont count it at all.

You, ampm, and bigdick post in every freakin thread i post in, so yes you are freakin trolls.

 

[BigDick]

You, ampm, and bigdick post in every freakin thread i post in, so yes you are freakin trolls.

look at the topic starter dude
 

[nugnugx]

look at the topic starter dude
 

it's like with gwagen when in one thread tym said that free mg is fine and in other thread where he said that mg is ok for its price

[Malgoroth]

Tym... man... are you saying the reason there is only 4 vet 3 pershings is because they aren't survivable? That's... That's interesting...
There's so many factors which govern the number of high vet (is that better for you?) units - that trying to boil it down to a single one is shortsighted and dishonest.

You're also avoiding the point. PIVs do well and there's quite a few of them at vet 3 even though they have the same survivability as a sherman. If you're REALLY using your jumbos conservatively (nice ego trip bragging about how awesome your jumbo is. I'm sure you're quite proud of yourself for leveling a heavy tank that far with your "good/great" skill) then it won't be a stretch for you to micro regular shermans the same way.  

btw, you haven't given ME a concise, valid argument as to why you want Jumbos in infantry when they fit much better in armor. Mostly all your saying is "no, because I said so".

Every Ami company has had a counter to heavy tanks since the beginning of eir. It's called AP round 57s. If you haven't figured that out yet after all this time and STILL have trouble with heavies then you're beyond help. Tigers are NOT hard to counter.  

[Demon767]

You avoided my question Tym.

[spinn72]

Every Ami company has had a counter to heavy tanks since the beginning of eir. It's called AP round 57s. If you haven't figured that out yet after all this time and STILL have trouble with heavies then you're beyond help. Tigers are NOT hard to counter. 

Every time I see a Tiger I look like this:


P.S. Taking bets on how long till this pic gets removed.. Thoughts?