Bring back Attack and Defend.

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[AmPM]

Fallacy.

US Allied company with none of those but with a few different units.

Riflemen (various equipment), 57mm, Sherman, M10/M18, M8, Quad, Sniper, Jeep, Engineers, Croc.

The US HMG is not that bad, the low cost makes it competitive, the US Mortar works well if used aggressively in support of the infantry, not passively like the Wehr mortar.

[tank130]

Perhaps, but my point I think would be if we went down that path of restricting company builds and forcing you to field units, ...................

Back up the bus there sparky!!!!!!

Nobody has come remotely close to suggesting that in this thread. We are discussing the merits of forcing attack or defend on a random bases. If you don't know if you are attacking or defending, then you need to build a balanced company that can handle either situation.

This in no way restricts you in your build. Unless of course your company is only good for one function and lacks depth of imagination.

IMHO, it would help to curb gimmick companies.

[puddin]

Random with a slightly higher pp gain of about 5-10%, nothing to great and maybe a reroll chance of 1%...  Again nothing to great but add a random option and i personally would truly enjoy that. 

Hell i played R+ the other day and it was a lot of fun and so different...

Add Random mode, make re roll 1% ( nothing higher it would be stupid but the slight re roll would make some fun taunts and just adds flavor)  and either a set number of extra PP or a percentage like 1-5 extra PP maybe like 2-3 again just a little something so that people are enticed into playing all the modes eventually but can certainly pick a mode if they so desire...

[tank130]

As long as people have an option, there will be dodging, bitching, and grief. There already is. Try and set up an attack or defend game. No one will join.

Just make it attack/defend on a random.  It takes more skill to be prepared for either.

[puddin]

mak a random option....

[tank130]

mak a random option....

You appear to be missing the point.
We have an option now, nobody uses it. It should not be an option, it should just be random.

But really, what is the point of discussing it. This mod has not seen a significant change or upgrade in months. I really doubt we will see this change any time soon......

[Groundfire]

Well, game modes used to be random to an extent before my campaign. Im sure a revert would not be so hard to do for EIRRmod, its just he needs to be online.

I can PM people and try to push development all I want, but sadly, I cant pull people away from RL to work on this thing.

[Hicks58]

Problem with attack and defend at the moment, is if you put it on Axis attack then the following happens:

Allies wait a minute and a half, while the Axis come on instantly and with the extra pop for attacking. Clearly not intended, as the Allies should be on immediately and have 3-4 minutes prep time before the Axis show up.

The reverse is true for Allies attack.

This could do with a fix when possible.

[spinn72]

From my experience a week ago, there is no artillery stopping the enemy from rushing up and taking all territory whilst the attacking team is waiting. We had to start a 3v3 with no territory on Monte Cassino =\

[tank130]

Well, game modes used to be random to an extent before my campaign. Im sure a revert would not be so hard to do for EIRRmod, its just he needs to be online.

I can PM people and try to push development all I want, but sadly, I cant pull people away from RL to work on this thing.

I appreciate your efforts to motivate the development, but even me giving the top dog 2000.00 motivation money appears to not work.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

man i love attacking defended posision.

[PonySlaystation]

Attack and Defend were not really that innovative tbh, when they worked nobody played them anyways. On most maps setting up defenses for 1-2 min is way better than 3-4 extra pop.

New gamemodes would be cool. I can think of a few.

King of the hill - hold one or two sectors to win.
Capture the flag - hold one flag/steal the enemy flag while defending you own.
Commander - (aka known as Regicide in AOE) kill the enemy commanders to win.
Escort - (aka known as Payload in TF2) escort a number of trucks, defenders lose pop by losing trucks and the attacks gain pop by killing them.
Civil War - US vs US and Wehr vs Wehr lulz. Nobody will complain about balance.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

King of the hill - hold one or two sectors to win.
Capture the flag - hold one flag/steal the enemy flag while defending you own.
Commander - (aka known as Regicide in AOE) kill the enemy commanders to win.
Escort - (aka known as Payload in TF2) escort a number of trucks, defenders lose pop by losing trucks and the attacks gain pop by killing them.
Civil War - US vs US and Wehr vs Wehr lulz. Nobody will complain about balance.

this would be awesome but they would need to make new maps for some of the modes.

[Spartan_Marine88]

Civil War - US vs US and Wehr vs Wehr lulz. Nobody will complain about balance.

Nah they still would do to things like fausts doing 2x damage to sug armour etc.

[puddin]

You appear to be missing the point.
We have an option now, nobody uses it. It should not be an option, it should just be random.

But really, what is the point of discussing it. This mod has not seen a significant change or upgrade in months. I really doubt we will see this change any time soon......

No your not understanding..

Rembeer why ramdom modes were taken out when it was puut in every time?  Because it was horendous and sucked for the dd atk defend game that ruined shit. 

Make one game mode so that when people join the game they know its a random one. 

If i want to play ME or R mode, fuck it, I want to play it, Don;t make me random every damn time...

But on occasion i would not mind random, and i could host a game as such...

[cloud234]

Attack and Defend were not really that innovative tbh, when they worked nobody played them anyways. On most maps setting up defenses for 1-2 min is way better than 3-4 extra pop.

I disagree. On a sufficiently well sized map with different avenues of attack, there is no defence which can cover the whole field. There'll always be loopholes and gaps.

By the way, on most maps it takes 1 min to get to the front lines... you're actually just having 1-2 real mins to "Set up defences" and most people don't build "fortifications" anyway. It makes no difference except for "being there first".

Besides on random mode, we usually had 2 or 3, 25popcap call ins as a "neutral" or "offensive" call in, depending on the game mode. There are also generic call ins like 2 volks, 1 mg, 1 pak, 1 mortar, 1 bike which works well either way.

[PonySlaystation]

I disagree, it never takes 1 min to move to the center of the map.

More importantly that "most people don't build fortifications" is not a good excuse. It makes a huge difference. Wiring every piece of cover, setting up 88s, bunkers and placing mines, that can make a huge difference in gameplay. Those things may not seem so threatening in regular games because they are hard to place unhindered. In fact most games when the a team has gotten a slight territorial advantage and got the chance to set up defenses early in the game it's usually GG. Sure you can counter it but that doesn't mean that it's fair. What good is 3 pop gonna do you? One engineer is not really gonna help.

[cloud234]

I disagree, it never takes 1 min to move to the center of the map.

Varies from map to map.

More importantly that "most people don't build fortifications" is not a good excuse. It makes a huge difference. Wiring every piece of cover, setting up 88s, bunkers and placing mines, that can make a huge difference in gameplay. Those things may not seem so threatening in regular games because they are hard to place unhindered. In fact most games when the a team has gotten a slight territorial advantage and got the chance to set up defenses early in the game it's usually GG.

There's a difference between theory and actual practice. I've played tons of attack/defence games when the timer was 3 mins, or even 4mins with fatherland defence. Very little people actually acted on these concepts and those few that do, most of them brought like... 3 pioneers/engineers or more just to build defences. Even so, they aren't really that good at it.

Its just "nostalgia" that people think attack/defence is great for the mod because they've played too much M/E and the "gimmicks" nowadays.

Sure you can counter it but that doesn't mean that it's fair. What good is 3 pop gonna do you? One engineer is not really gonna help.

3 pop, is the differnce between just fielding 2 P4s, and fielding 2 P4s with 2 flame pios and 2 goliaths. Not good enough for you?

Or maybe 1 P4 and 3 volks w/ assault nades...

Or maybe a Panther with 2 grens/volks/kch/storms + 1 flame pio?

Or maybe a Tiger with 2 stormschrecks?

3 Popcap makes a world of difference.

[puddin]

And if you can select a random mode... You can not rely on being on the defensive side... So you can not stack up on nothing but mines and Goliaths or demos.. You have to bring some essembelence of balance to the game.... 

A random Option is a good one because it keeps company builds honest, IF not, they have a 3 out of 4 chance of total failure.

[NightRain]

People asked what is my definition of a balanced company- isn't it already obvious?

There are no balanced companies. Yes you hear it right. There are NO, BALANCED, COMPANIES, in Europe in Ruins.