EiR:R Development and Progress

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[tank130]

Wind, it is very important to note that your opinion of me, whether good or bad, means absolutely nothing to me. Never has, never will.

There are some members here whose opinion does mean something to me. We don;t always agree, but their opinions matter.

That being said. I chose to be "that guy" to start this thread, and I new it would be a shit storm. I wanted to bring this to every bodies attention in a big way. I succeeded in doing just that.

Alot of people are going to think twice before they post a comment that is insulting (jackass post). They are going to consider how that makes the development team feel. There will always be the few that just don't get it, but I think the community is going to help to weed those people out as well.

I gladly took the insults and the brunt of the backlash. If the devs or mods had brought this up, it would have started a war of us / them. This way you all can blame old man tank. I really don't give a shit.

Oh course, there will be skeptics out there who will think I am just full of shit about taking one for the team. Groundfire, you have my permission to post my PM to you on that subject.

Please take note of the time and date of my PM. it is after my first post and well before the shit storm.

[Mysthalin]

I'm considering making a statistic of how many posts in this thread were hateful or not so I get to avoid doing my statistics tutorial work.

Irony.

[puddin]

In my experience when has this community ever been happy?  

Here has been my history of EIR

March 08 i came i played, and people were complaining.... But 2.0 was around the corner... Everyone complained it was taking to long and balance was an issue... So balance was worked on doctrines changed around some and worked on

Then some time passes, doctrines change, 2.0 still promised, community still complaining about pretty well everything, few devs come and go and no one knows why they quit but we wish them well.

Some more time passes, Fl leaves, Salan tries to take over and change the mode because the community... You guessed it Complained and bitched and it was stagnant.... Salan changes are Riped apart, and ridiculed mercsesisly by many of the community to the point he reverts it back to the way it was... The way the community complained about it before.... HE stops being around... Another Dev gone and we all say we will miss you good bye....


Then EIR Mod comes around... makes awhole new launcher... People say wow, things change.... And then.... you guessed it..... Everyopne complaines...  Again.... And again... And again... And now..... BEfore you post think....

I am one who has complained and thrown alot a shit the Devs ways, Hell EIRMOD has gotten so angry at me at one point he told me to go fuck off and never come back because i wanted him to know i thought it was shit... But in the end i never really did say thank you, and the way to say Thank You is not post or argue or offer balance suggestions at every turn, Its become an RGD editor like groundfire, or become a coder or news guy or something to alleviate the pressure so that good Devs STAY...

The reason there is stagnation is that Good developers LEAVE because EVERYONE here is an Asshole and does not contribute more than a pile of shit on the forums.  And the worst offenders think they are helping the most when in reality while we need testers... Many people test the games and the units... But to few make it all happen.

I will be honest, I didn;t like Bob, I didn;t care care for him much i hardly ever agreed with anything he was doing but He took it upon himself to put in a  ton of man hours and overhaul the doctrines because he felt it needed to be done and well they mostly got done...  And then everyone shit down his throat....

I have an idea from now on.... Shut up, Let it be implimented and when its done talk about it but before you are allowed to Critique it, Just Do something for them first...

These doctrines are some of the most inovated ive acreative in many ways and aspects and have changed gameplay quite a bit and i enjoy them....  I can;t make super units and that awesome i love that...  

Just think of it this way, Imagine your boss coming to you saying " HEy look, your going to work on saturday and sunday this week 12 hour shifts both days and just to give you a fair warning, No matter how much work you do or How good it is, I am still going to complaine and tell you how terrible it is on monday, So go have fun"  

Who wants that Job?  No one... Who has that Job.... A Dev...

[Groundfire]

What we really need is for people to keep their mouths shut or to do something constructive like what 3rdCondor is doing in another thread.

The compliment sandwich or whatever, you give some praise, you give some criticism, you give some praise. That would be FUCKING AWESOME if we could make that standard.

Im with puddin. Having gone straight from the outside, in, in order to show my support for the mod, the shoutcasts, the warmap artwork, the campaign and finally being given the title of PR lead and access to everything, I can see how it looks from absolutely both ends.

I know what it's like to not feel as if anyone is listening to you and I also know what its like to feel as if no one thinks I am listening to them, but I am anyways. There's something lost here. Praise and respect are not transfered between the community and the devs and it hurts progress.

As a whole, I can say right now, this community will never be completely satsifed. There will always be that one guy who feels as if it's appropriate to convey dispraise and the people who are content do not speak up. As I said, it all stacks. We need to do something about this.

I have also said before, we have been rather fortunate to have gone through as many coders as we have. NO Other MOD I have ever played has had so many power shifts and had so many people at the top. There is almost no one left, we've exhausted nearly all the people with the skills to develop this mod. We are now on our backup coder and there is no one left in the CoH modding community for us to recruit and the coders who left are too fed up with the community to come back. WE cannot keep replacing these people. Whether you like it or not. This mod is a collaborative effort. Everyone on the inside had at least some say or insight on every patch when they are asked. Criticising one person just puts a negative shadow upon everyone because everyone helped create it. Thats why coders get discouraged because people may bitch about something they "may think" the balance team was in charge of. It's partly the reason why EIRRmod is not here right now even though everyone here considers him to be Jesus Christ, for all intent and purposes.

If everyone does not start showing some love soon, we are going to die.

Can we at least all agree upon that?

[IJustDontCare]

Why don't you guys all just close the thread and go work on developing the mod together?

Ignorance will always be annoying and will never go away. Welcome to planet Earth Dev Team. Best easiest thing to do is just ignore them. Its pretty much all you can do because if you ban them well it just makes the community smaller in the end.

This is my opinion at-least. Have fun though with whatever you guys decide on.

I agree with Groundfires previous post he posted as I was writing mine

[TheIcelandicManiac]

You need to read my first post. I have said all along it is a minority of the community that is fucking it all up. I have said all along that these people need to have their posts deleted.

People have come on here and bitched that I am going about this all wrong with this thread. I posted another thread I started to prove that another approach had only 2 positive results.

In Short: I have tried the nice way and I have tried the more aggressive way. The more aggressive way has achieved much better results in getting feed back from the community.

So please read the posts before you rage post. I have never said most of the community, I have always said a few or minority.

Sure and i am sorry for "raging" but there do alot of people play and love this mod,
sure there are a few that are going around bringing the moral of the whole down to a shit based level so that the mods dont want to work on it anymore but if you really want to make the mods see something else than the shitposts towards this mod you need to get the people who play allmost everyday and tell them to be more active in the Forum community.

If everyone does not start showing some love soon, we are going to die.

Can we at least all agree upon that?

There is more than enough love in this comunity, you just need a shovel to dig all the shit out before you can see it.

[Spartan_Marine88]

There is more than enough love in this comunity, you just need a shovel to dig all the shit out before you can see it.

+1

[EIRRMod]

Gaaaawd Lucifer come back and give us poor guys a message!!!!

*waves hands soothingly*

I am back my children.  We will rebuild our broken world, and bring life back to this once verdant source!



Buuuut anyway.

Tank is right to a certain point.  Motivation pretty much fucking DIES when you read all the bitching.  My solution?  Stop reading - but then that makes it worse.
So, Im going to endevour to find issues as they arise - both in the mod itself, and with the procedures I and the Dev team make to bring about those changes.

Dont get me wrong, I'll make mistakes, mainly due to a lack of information - but I wont stop till this mod is done.  I made that promise when I started, I wont back out on it.

<3
EIRRMod

[Demon767]

I love you no homo!

[EIRRMod]

I can agree with this, stop with all the wipes, keep the current system and don't do unnecessary balance changes.

Unfortunately, the system will be changing.

The idea is (and I mean the grindless / warmap system) - is to have wars lasting 3-6 months at a time.
Then a reset, with partial persistant carry overs (think of honors and rankings).

Balance changes will happen all the time, as the meta-game changes - it will never be complete.  I do agree with 'unnecessary' changes, but what fits that criterion when we are not even out of beta?

[EIRRMod]

Just think of it this way, Imagine your boss coming to you saying " HEy look, your going to work on saturday and sunday this week 12 hour shifts both days and just to give you a fair warning, No matter how much work you do or How good it is, I am still going to complaine and tell you how terrible it is on monday, So go have fun"

I <3 puddin'

[TheWindCriesMary]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Furthermore, 99% of the criticism that people level on these forums is not directed at EiRmod. It is almost universally agreed upon, atleast in my experience, that he has done superhuman things for this mod and that he has done so without expectation or desire for personal reward.  People respect EiRmod because he not only codes his ass off for the mod, but he will also listen when the community is upset and has a proven track record of personally responding to those concerns in a levelheaded and reasonable manner. To be perfectly honest, criticizing EiRMod is tantamount to insulting Jesus around here -- you just don't do it even if you aren't christian.

-Wind

[cloud234]

Dev's may develop the game, but you still need beta testers and players to provide feedback.

The history of EiRR in my opinion, has always been some Devs (note I say SOME, not all) who have their own ideas on balance/game ideas/unit tweaks which the community generally does not agree with. It was put in and people go "wtf did you do that?!" and naturally flaming ensues.

Stop making it out to be a "bleeding heart" for the Devs to develop this game. You place in tons of man hours developing the games, other players put in tons of man hours to mentor new players, play games and make maps etc. Both sides have made equal amount of commitment to brign the mod to where it is today, for reasons both good and bad.

This is a project that requires cooperation from both sides and naturally, some "give and take". If both sides are going to stand on moral high ground, that they're always right, this problem will re-occur constantly over and over again.

As Puddin has stated, this is not the first time it has happened, if anything else it has repeated itself over and over again on a consistent basis.

...

Can we at least all agree upon that?

I would agree on that in principle. What happens in reality, is a totally different thing.

[Sachaztan]

Lets all be realistic now and understand that there will ALWAYS be some degree of bitching and flaming, this is due to the mere fact that this forum is on the internet.

Easy solution: the moderators of the forums do what they were supposed to do right from the start, which is MODERATING. Why don't I see people complaining about them not doing their job?

[chefarzt]

Tbh i prefer to see deadbolt not moderating.

[Sachaztan]

Tbh i prefer to see deadbolt not moderating.

That is a separate issue of who should be a moderator and who should not.

[PonySlaystation]

Unfortunately, the system will be changing.

The idea is (and I mean the grindless / warmap system) - is to have wars lasting 3-6 months at a time.
Then a reset, with partial persistant carry overs (think of honors and rankings).

Balance changes will happen all the time, as the meta-game changes - it will never be complete.  I do agree with 'unnecessary' changes, but what fits that criterion when we are not even out of beta?

But that's good news. It's good to know that rankings/leaderboards won't be included in future wipes.

With unnecessary changes I mostly meant "don't try to fix what's not broken" because the rest of the doctrines will change balance. Maybe one of the major reasons why PE are so hard to beat is because there is no AB yet. So once AB is implemented PE no longer has vehicle superiority and because of their armor change, maybe PE are suddenly very underpowered. I don't think that this particular issue is that serious but it was still an unnecessary change.

[AmPM]

My only concern with a wipe every 3-6 months is this. What is going to increase the replay value of EIRR? I mean sure, warmap helps, but after 2-3 rounds on that it's going to be the same ol' shit over and over again.

It's only so much fun starting from scratch again and again. Maybe the ability to tag units and take them with you into the next campaign would be good. You might not be able to purchase them at the start making a loss of one even more hard felt.

[nugnugx]

I mean sure, warmap helps, but after 2-3 rounds on that it's going to be the same ol' shit over and over again.

What is the replay value of vcoh ?  by that logic you have same shit over and over again every game.

what is replay value of singplayer games? you finish them once and its same shit over and over again

what is replay value of mmos? you grind over and over again


Idk what you are expecting Ampm but no game in history provided that everything will be different in every game.

EIRR has bigger replay value right now then most of games, and with warmap it will be even bigger.

The logic behind what you say is so flawed.

[brn4meplz]

I always liked the start of a war more then the end of a war. Matches were decided by skill not the old OP abilities.

and you slowly started to see Howitzers and storm troopers. Then when you came against that first Pershing or Tiger you shit the bed