[CW] Tetrarch smoke cloak

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[LeoPhone]

Commando doctrine allows tetrarchs to gain commando smoke. I remember asking a question about this when discussion the new doctrines in ventrilo chat and I was told the tetrarchs wouldnt cloak.

but they do.
This can in no way be intended simply because it is one of the most retarded things ever. The tetrarchs go invisible while shooting back themselves and get away without any penalty.
and if you choose not to drive away the enemy AT will probably shoot on some riflemen or tanks will rotate their turret somewhere else until the tetrach decloaks again. but by then it is too late for the axis...

Allies got another win button and micro has been made impossible for axis.

[Killer344]

Would it be so hard to leave the stupid remarks for yourself?

[brn4meplz]

You caught us Leo. We lied to you months ago just knowing this would set you off. The wait made it all the more savoury.


In all seriousness and avoiding your comments thatdon't belong in the balanc forum. We'll look into/fix it.

[RikiRude]

I love it when people see something that is most obviously a bug (commando units dont shoot while cloaked) and think its some kind of super allied or axis omg win button.

[spinn72]

It's so frustrating to play against Lionels tet company, especially as PE considering tets just cloak past all forms of PE AT except handheld!

[WildZontar]

It's so frustrating to play against Lionels tet company, especially as PE considering tets just cloak past all forms of PE AT except handheld!

Indeed it is, good thing I've never had to fight against it =P have you seen the video Lionel posted up where his cloakced gets were blocking the tiger?

[nugnugx]

Tetrach cloak is indeed too powerfull.

[puddin]

OK who here ahas used it? Raise hands... 

Oh wait none of anyone who has commented has actually used it? 

I think it makes a bad unit playable.  Why? 

Smoke gives it a chance to get away and last an extra 10 seconds in an engagement which amounts to about 1.5 shots. 

They are an 8 pop unit which means you can;t field a lot of them at once which is what they suppose to do, Tigers 2 shot them with heat rounds and vet, Cloaked paks anhiliate them as well.  They do shit dmg vs infantry....

And the recharge is somethign liek 400-600 seconds so the chance of you using it twice on the unit is slim to none. 

So let me get this straight, THe fact that no one has used this ability in this disscussion all claim it should be nerfed because of what basis?  It makes the unit go invisible for 8-10 seconds, for the 1.5 shots that a tet can do...

If they tet had firefly or tiger dmg, i could understand the ragr, but it does next to nothing vs tanks

Oh and How much is the little john adapter cost?  Anyone? 60 munitions.... Thats a fucking piat, for extra pen, that does almost no dmg. 

The Tet isn;t that great and is only good if you can swarm someone and even then turretless vehicles are what its good at killing, M-8s and Stuarts and Stags are more cost effective and have a better chance at killing both inf and vehicles. 

After i have seen all the PE i win buttons... Slow, Flame assault nades, Off map persiion strike with burning afterwards ensuring a Vetted AT gun crew dead every time, The PE offf map that Blankets an area in Flame like Rocket barrgae but it actually kills things, Moving lock down P4ISTS sometimes with more range or flame rounds, Flame units in INF hts with a shreak as well to fight vehicles and inf and all that bull shit... 

1 Unit with a smoke hide and NO OTHER DOCTRINAL BUFFS when its a fuckign teir 2 unlock that has a cool down of 5 mins minimum on a weak unit, with no health and no anti infantry capability?   

Leo raged in a 2v2 i played against him and made this post soon after, he god mad in game and since that game, i don;t even like them, they are quite useless, the T4 makes them a gimick to be said " WTF whered it go?  Oh it went to repair....  Or maybe it can pop the smoke to avoid death for the 1 extra shot to kill a vehicle thats near death...m And thats it.... 

And the reason Linal uses them and everyone fears thoise.... HE has 16-23 of them ffs.  Anytime you need that many of something, the unit itself is shit, but hey make a milion of them and they will do enough  dmg.

[LeoPhone]

if the smoke just spawns on the tank without invisibility making shots miss like 90% of the time it's fine, but the cloak screws up targetting.
not to mention it looks really ridiculous.

[Heartmann]

Pudding you are being overly bisaed, and to what i can tell angry, but ofc i could be assuming this by wrong.

But by you are wrong, playing against tets many times is also a good enough reason to be allowed to  have an opinion of them. They are not only good vs turretless targets, 2 cna kill a maxed health tiger and panth, sadly i have no reaply of this, and i dont like to use the "ive seen it argument". But The pen is enough to do dmg, its the same kind of unit as the hotch, and that tank got its pen reduced whil the tett can still deploy behind enemy lines, faster, higher pen values and can now cloak, the tank in its own right is to be feared, the smoke imo just makes them to much of a "freak" occurence. Also 60 muni is not a piat its half of one and they do not even reflect each others funtions, piats are a combo unit, (mandos excluded) while the tetts are more behind enemy lines attack vech.

Now, the real problem with them and the cloaking is not that they can kill the higher vechs with it, thw problem is that during there swarming instance they can also avoid certain cover aspects that the axis are trying to provide its heavy tanks. We cannot deny the teh knowledge that one usese them in combination other attacks, like ragers etc, and when one does that they become almost a force of nature. Reason being that the paks and shreks de selects that tank and starts firing towrds other units, then the tetts reappears during the reload time and the tanks will already have received so much dmg, that its next to useless. This is the aspect of Eir. Attrition, with inf its numbers with tanks its mass. A single faust does not do a lot of dmg, BUT id does do it, over time if that tanks has not been able to do any dmg, but gets hit several times by at, it losses its combat effectiveness, this is where units like the tetes come in, they prey on the attrition tanks, and they are JUST the right tool for it, but the problem is that if you deploy them during this time and the dmg is specifically small but with the pen and swarm tactic its almost a sure thing, which is abit silly, nothing in EiR or any game for that matter should be a sure thing.

[AmPM]

If you lose a heavy tank to 2 Tets you have failed, even with cloak.

Ask Lionel what happens when his 2 tet's go up against my Tiger. I simply turn in for the turret rotation bonus and RoF bonus and kill them very very fast.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

The best way to counter tets is to have a jagd on A Road.

2 Hits and its dead but the great part is that allmost everyshot is a damadged engine on those fuckers.

its the same way i counter m10s with my hetzers.

[puddin]

Play with them one game, And your whole opinion will be changed heartman.  They are a useless unit at the moment.

And on Sapper squads 120 Mu gives you 2 piats, So a Little john adaptor gives you 1 piat.... So yes My math is correct, Not half a piat like you claim. 

Seen the dmg they put out?  I would put 3 of these little bastards with smoke against 1 tiger, and Maybe.... Just maybe we would get it to 1 quarter health. 

They fire slow, Their dmg is extreamly low, and they are 3 shotted by almost any AT if not 2 shotted.  I don;t see how they can be feared, and while the smoke seems silly, its needed to make them at all effective. 

I wonder why no commando builds use them.... Even with smoke, I won;t use them, they are terrible units at the moment that suck 8 pop for nothign in return. 

Maybe i need to learn how o read RGDs so i can look up Damage, and rate of fire, but i m positive that once those numbers are posted it will be laughable.

[AmPM]

Tet's are only good at one thing, dropping in to gank Hummel's and Marders...

[LeoPhone]

dont expect an airdropped tank to perform like a M10. its really cheap.

[puddin]

i am not expecting it to, but everyone acting like they are beastly and adding in the smoke makes them really goodd, when they really arn;t to good to begin with, get no doctrine buffs, and It can gank 1 marder, thats not spawn bufffed like any other LV can, And hummel ganking, Chances are a hummell can run down a road to friendlies before the tet can kill it.

[8thRifleRegiment]

puddin, smokin some good crack, any idiot can just circle strafe a marder with a tetrach, its not hard at all, dont make it seem like marders can do anything vs tetrachs when they are being controlled by a competant player, with the smoke it makes marders killing tets almost impossible, becuase i cannt get the initial shot off before you start circling me, you come into view of the marder, pop smoke, shoot once, then once you appear on my side circling me already. and marders turn too slowly to keep up, or if i try to backup and turn to catch you mid-turn, odds are it will fuck up the pathfinding and instead of reversing it will try to do a 360 turn. You cannt go around saying well if PE gets the moving lockdown, i get this retarded OP shit, its not even close to the same thing, you shouldnt compare units to other units, having an OP unit to match another OP unit doesnt make it fair, each unit and ita bility needs to be looked at as a singular thing, not compared to other things, like its effectiveness vs everything, or how it fits into EiR metagame 

[Uglysori]

I find after fighting them numerous time that the commando smoke actually equates to around 2-3 free shots on a target per tet.  This is because the smoke not only lets them dps while cloaked but throws off AI targeting which coupled with maneuvering lets the tet get off around 2-3 shots before its target can fire back.  The tets are still beatable with heavier tanks or if they have fast turret rotation like from Blitz buffs or say an Ostwind depending on the number being used.

Frankly on Scorched Earth short of a panther or dbl mobile ISTs supporting each other you don't really have a chance.  The tet has plenty of dmg to destroy 50mm, Marders, LT AT HTs, or Shrek clown cars.  Saturation minefields in the backfield or mines off muni hts could be a solution. Spamming Lt at hts with treadbreaker to counter is also a possibility.  The LT AT HT option isn't really that efficient imo given that treadbreaker costs more than little john adapters and the platform is very vulnerable to tet dmg.  One could also try to match the tets with hotchkisses in number though beyond dealing with mass tets, you have just sunk a good amt on your fuel on a platform that isn't as effective against most allied builds since they don't field as many vulnerable light vehicles as PE and the hotchkisses on Scorched Earth don't receive any buffs except a t2 accuracy increase.

[spinn72]

PE counter to tet spam.

Oh wait there is none, those things counter all forms of PE AT.
The ability for a tank to go completely invisible for an extended period of time is just ridiculous. If it was still visible but 70-80% harder to hit, we wouldn't be having this issue. Being completely invisible messes up targeting priorities. And just so you know, I have used tets for several games with these current doctrines and their major ability is their speed and constant penetration. They're like AB in that regard, they're just freaking annoying.

[lionel23]

Easy counter to tets = Handheld AT.  I don't use AT guns with any of my companies, and people who diss the shrek and refuse to use them to easily counter the tet should be punished.  As many games I've played with my tet company (and AMPm can attest to), my company gets hard stomped by shrek squads due to the fact tets are piss poor when shooting infantry and their only saving grace is they can fight tanks with an 60MU upgrade and the T4 Tet bonus, the only bonus they get for a doctrine tank, helps improves the survivability on the field.  A King Tiger or Tiger can easily 2 shot the tank, so the smoke lets it get off one or two more shots before either having to run away (they are unable to crush walls) and wait for more smoke or to die heroically.

The T4 is just fine, it's just people need to stop using anti-TANK counters and use anti-light vehicle counters.  A puma will rape the shit out of a tet and so will handheld AT.  You can't use a marder due to its supremely slow rotation speed or a 50mm being its a slow vehicle unless you layer them or put them on a road for quicker rotation, in which the tet is dead.