PE sniper?

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[nugnugx]

88 and flakvierling is a t2 material not t3 tbh.  in defensive 88 is in t2.


And marksman shot is already in terror for grens so no.

[PonySlaystation]

tbh, they should get gebirgsjägers and a sniper instead of flak88 and tankbusters.

[8thRifleRegiment]

kk, anti tank supplies top tier 2, Move Boys AT to Tank hunters to repalce the fail faust upgrade there was.

And move flak88 and flakverling to the top tier 2 and put the gerbish to bottom tier 3 with the tankbusters.

Just gerbs, not gerbs and a sniper. Gerbs with 60-120sec marksman shot cooldown and mark target. the intention of this unit is to play into the whole theme of falls, map awareness and ambushes (ie mark target) 

and with top tier 4 tankbusters are pretty epic, you get cloaking shreck falls. That get ambush bonus on thier shrecks

[PonySlaystation]

Marksman shot is not the same as a sniper and a sniper is what players want.

[AmPM]

Marksman shot is not the same as a sniper and a sniper is what players want.

What players want usually isn't balanced.

[PonySlaystation]

What players want usually isn't balanced.

True, but with this particular issue, I think it would be balanced. And if it wouldn't be balanced, then changes can be done. For example it could be changed so it only camouflages in cover or not be able to sit in halftracks etc. There are ways PE can have a sniper without it being very unbalanced.

If you predict that something will be a big problem, for example "when PE players use mortars and snipers together it will be too powerful" then you can say something like that but right now your argument is a bit empty.

Sniper is the only support weapon the Panzer Elite do not have access to or have an equally good alternative. All 3 other factions have snipers.

[tank130]

All 3 other factions have snipers.

Which is exactly why PE should not have a sniper.

What's with people wanting every faction the same lately........

[PonySlaystation]

Just as I said, vCoH has a lot of problems with CW and PE. One of them us that they have fewer and more simplistic units and therefor require less micro (this applies mostly to CW). In EIR these problems were fixed by giving CW and PE support units that are based on US and WM or are equally useful, this is to help balance and gameplay. The only exception is the sniper for PE. That's hardly mirroring everything, they can still be different.

Giving less units to one faction simply means that they get somewhat of a support role that cannot stand on their own. It's still hard to play three PE or three CW in a 3v3 but it's a long way from vCoH. Giving them a sniper would not be mirroring, it doesn't even have to work the same, but the basic concept is still that they should have a unit like this, to be able to counter the other factions snipers and perform well on their own. A PE player shouldn't have to build a WM company simply to have access to support weapons, there should be alternatives.

The fact that all three other factions have them simply means it will be unbalanced, it's very hard to counter snipers as PE. I know this because when I play Airborne there is simply no way a PE player could kill my sniper if it's backed up by RRs.

There are three good ways to counter a sniper, in order of effectiveness.
1: Counter-sniping
2: Bike + AC rushing
3: Overrunning the enemy
4: Artillery

It's very hard to counter a sniper with artillery (commando sniper and calliope excluded) which means that PE are left with option 2 and 3 which makes it impossible to kill a sniper backed up with strong AT without the help of a WM player.

[RikiRude]

it does seem silly that if US gets 2 snipers, wm gets two snipers, and brits get a sniper, pe ought to have one. the idea of giving it a cloak in cover, mark target, and marksmen shot on a short cool down would be interesting, could even give it elite armor or like said make it 3 man.

[AmPM]

Just as I said, vCoH has a lot of problems with CW and PE. One of them us that they have fewer and more simplistic units and therefor require less micro (this applies mostly to CW). In EIR these problems were fixed by giving CW and PE support units that are based on US and WM or are equally useful, this is to help balance and gameplay. The only exception is the sniper for PE. That's hardly mirroring everything, they can still be different.

Giving less units to one faction simply means that they get somewhat of a support role that cannot stand on their own. It's still hard to play three PE or three CW in a 3v3 but it's a long way from vCoH. Giving them a sniper would not be mirroring, it doesn't even have to work the same, but the basic concept is still that they should have a unit like this, to be able to counter the other factions snipers and perform well on their own. A PE player shouldn't have to build a WM company simply to have access to support weapons, there should be alternatives.

The fact that all three other factions have them simply means it will be unbalanced, it's very hard to counter snipers as PE. I know this because when I play Airborne there is simply no way a PE player could kill my sniper if it's backed up by RRs.

There are three good ways to counter a sniper, in order of effectiveness.
1: Counter-sniping
2: Bike + AC rushing
3: Overrunning the enemy
4: Artillery

It's very hard to counter a sniper with artillery (commando sniper and calliope excluded) which means that PE are left with option 2 and 3 which makes it impossible to kill a sniper backed up with strong AT without the help of a WM player.

PE have the BEST anti sniper unit in the game, the Vampire HT. It has infantry awareness to a good distance, and has detection. Combine with LATHT or AC for sniper killing lolz.

[PonySlaystation]

PE have the BEST anti sniper unit in the game, the Vampire HT. It has infantry awareness to a good distance, and has detection. Combine with LATHT or AC for sniper killing lolz.

Yes, the Vampire HT is good for detecting snipers but even if you do detect it, how is an armored car or LATHT gonna survive against RRs and AT guns? Doesn't sound like an easy task to me.

I still think a sniper would be a nice addition to PE. Could this at least be tested? It's very hard to judge how effective or balanced something is if you haven't seen it ingame.

[nugnugx]

It's very hard to judge how effective or balanced something is if you haven't seen it ingame.

Would be the same as vs wehr sniper for allies, nothing would be different here in terms of 'difficulty'.

[nugnugx]

Quote from: PonySlaystation on Today at 11:16:14 am
All 3 other factions have snipers.

Which is exactly why PE should not have a sniper.

What's with people wanting every faction the same lately........

And i'll say Tank that this is exactly why PE should have a sniper.

If only 2 factions had sniper   brits and US ,  giving sniper to axis could be considered as mirroring.  But when 3 factions have a certain type of unit and 4th faction is without it , that faction is underpowered because  one role is not filled which all other factions have.

Mirroring is only when 1 faction have certain type of unit , or 2 factions on one side and unit is given to other faction on other side, but not when 3 factions have same unit.

(This is where also PE lacks a medium tank)

[PonySlaystation]

Would be the same as vs wehr sniper for allies, nothing would be different here in terms of 'difficulty'.

I wasn't referring to how well the unit performs on it's own but rather how it would perform alongside other PE units.

[nugnugx]

I wasn't referring to how well the unit performs on it's own but rather how it would perform alongside other PE units.

Everything would be practicaly the same, having a PE sniper might be harder for the PE player because hmg is only in one doctrine so there is no real ability to suppress a blob that would rush you.

[smurfORnot]

hmg is in 2 doctrines(SE and luft)

[PonySlaystation]

Everything would be practicaly the same, having a PE sniper might be harder for the PE player because hmg is only in one doctrine so there is no real ability to suppress a blob that would rush you.

Luft and SE have HMGs
FJs have covering fire
Scout cars have HMG upgrade
G43 have suppress

So there are plenty of alternatives. But you're right about mirroring. Mirroring is when you give an identical unit to the other faction to balance things out. It's not the same as leaving out something like artillery for one faction. They need units in the same category, to lessen the effects of mirroring, the unit can be different, but you cannot leave out a critical part of the game.

Adding a sniper is not mirroring, it's fixing the game.

I can explain this further. You don't give artillery to one faction and then not to the other. Because then the other faction would need stronger units to make up for the fact that they have no artillery. This causes unbalance and gameplay complications.

[nugnugx]

hmg is in 2 doctrines(SE and luft)

missed the se lol     still would be no different to wehr

[8thRifleRegiment]

well. I still think gerbishjagers would be a good idea in the PE. marksman shot on 80sec cooldown would be balanced

[Katusha]

well. I still think gerbishjagers would be a good idea in the PE. marksman shot on 80sec cooldown would be balanced

Pretty much what I had in mind.

So far I haven't heard anything more than the "We're not gonna mirror factions" argument against the PE sniper. (What was going through your heads when you added commando sniper then?)

Give us a good reason to forget this idea, and we will.