Panzer Grens

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[Demon767]

Also Hicks, your arguments are always fail, you know it cuz everytime i pop up you attempt to reduce my credability, i know how you work

HMG's are used for area denial, put it in house with a supporting infantry squad,

or in a field with a supporting infantry squad, if they charge you they will take so much damage they will die.

I dont remember any HMG, axis or allied, not used as area denial without atleast one supporting infantry. both sides have suppression resistors, l2p

[Tymathee]

So, what you are saying, is its like fighting AB or Rangers, but they have less HP, worse armor, and weaker weapons?

Pretty much except that p grens aren't elite infantry and p grens have more individual health.

So you just proved my point. P Grens = Allied Elite Infantry. Thanks ampm

[Demon767]

Tym, are you really having problems with infantry coming directly at you? focus fire, or insta suppression pineapples.


waaaiit wait wait, i thought in the last changelog or two they reduced the suppression resistance from sprint, or already said they were going to?

[Hicks58]

Demon you can say L2P 'till your blue in the face, but no other mainline standard infantry has such suppression resistance as PzGrens with Vet Sergeants popping sprint.

Riflemen do not have it. Volksgrenadiers do not have it. Grenadiers do not have it, and Tommies do not have it. All of these, if hit by 1-2 bursts of HMG, WILL be suppressed.

PzGrens pop sprint, and suppression becomes a moot point.

[Demon767]

ok no other mainline infantry can do it, doesnt mean they cant.

where in eirr manual does it say everything has to be identical.

[Hicks58]

Nowhere, but in the interests of balance, mainline infantry don't get such huge suppression resistances... This is because you'll have an entire army that is completely immune to suppression, which is one of the hardest counters to infantry.

[Demon767]

Nowhere, but in the interests of balance, mainline infantry don't get such huge suppression resistances... This is because you'll have an entire army that is completely immune to suppression, which is one of the hardest counters to infantry.

In support your theory, however your supporting governments are horrible.

in actual fact i initially lean towards tyms argument of p-gren sprint, i just want it proved to me.

btw there is nothing wrong with arguing both sides, if it not argued then something is wronglol

[Hicks58]

I have argued points in previous arguments for all 4 armies, it's just in this thread, I'm against PE having such heavy suppression resistance on their PzGrens. T_T

Governments ARE horrible, but thats neither here nor there.

I've nothing against sprint itself, it's the suppression resistance that is inherently broken.

[AmPM]

I have argued points in previous arguments for all 4 armies, it's just in this thread, I'm against PE having such heavy suppression resistance on their PzGrens. T_T

Governments ARE horrible, but thats neither here nor there.

I've nothing against sprint itself, it's the suppression resistance that is inherently broken.

I'm curious about why it's ok for Fireup to not only break suppression, but to give such high resistance as well, while Sprint, which only gives resistance is not ok?

And yes, you can blob and spam rangers and AB.

[Hicks58]

Your paying a much higher cost for Fireup, not only that, it leaves you exhausted at the end of it.

310 MP and 9 pool, and that's just on Rangers. If you use Fireup to attack, chances are that squad is now a write-off. If you use sprint to attack, you maintain full efficiency even after sprint has ran it's course.

Personally, I'd rather have 50% suppression resistance and sprint on my Rangers rather than Fireup. The negatives at the end of it make it simply an escape button for if I've screwed up somewhere, rather than a viable offensive tool.

[puddin]

You guys notice its the same 3 or 5 ppl posting in threads every time?

[AmPM]

Compare MP cost per man with MP cost per man of PGrens, then effective HP per man as well.

310mp for 6 rangers is 62 MP per ranger.

4 PGrens w/ Vet Sgt costs what, 245? More?

So about the same cost per man.

One has the option of breaking suppression.

Seems about fair to me.

[Hicks58]

It's 240 MP.

Your also forgetting pool costs, 3 pool for PzGrens and 9 for Rangers.

Really, suppression resistant sprint would make more sense on an actual elite infantry... Falls perhaps?

Oh, and I'd like to see you make a 20 Ranger/Airborne company. That's right, it would go oversupply extremely quickly, and kill 3/4's of your MP.

20 PzGrens would soak up only half of your MP in comparison, and you more than likely wouldn't go oversupply.

[tank130]

You guys notice its the same 3 or 5 ppl posting in threads every time?

Phew..... I thought it was only me that sees that.
Gets a little redundant actually.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Indeed lord tank, indeed

hehehehhehehe Leet
i think i am happy for now

[AmPM]

It's 240 MP.

Your also forgetting pool costs, 3 pool for PzGrens and 9 for Rangers.

Really, suppression resistant sprint would make more sense on an actual elite infantry... Falls perhaps?

Oh, and I'd like to see you make a 20 Ranger/Airborne company. That's right, it would go oversupply extremely quickly, and kill 3/4's of your MP.

20 PzGrens would soak up only half of your MP in comparison, and you more than likely wouldn't go oversupply.

240 MP per squad for PGren with Sgt

310 for Rangers

60mp for PGren
62mp for Rangers

Not too far off there is it.

The point is, that outside of pool values, they are in no way overpowered on a 1 to 1 scale vs other commonly encountered infantry.

Either way the balance goes, PGrens changes dont effect my Wehr.

[Hicks58]

*Facepalm*

Oh, and yes, I have noticed it's the same few, and I've stupidly fallen into the trap of becoming one of them...

Bah. I'm becoming more vocal because I care about the mod. T_T

[RikiRude]

Why is this still an arguement? Someone said they were looking at changing it by (hopefully) next patch.

[pqumsieh]

what would you guys like to see in regards to change? Removal of suppression resistance? Addition of exhaustion? Or create a separate PG unit with a higher pool value (maybe 6)?

PQ

[Spartan_Marine88]

Phew..... I thought it was only me that sees that.
Gets a little redundant actually.

I think most of us have just given up.

The sprint is fine as it is, it doesn't need to be made suppression resistant as its on basic infantry. The only thing i don't like is having vet 2 meaningless.

Nothing really changed with Pgrens, now you can strike unsupported atgs easier.

btw, ami mg still suppresses on the second burst. All the suppression resistance does is maybe allow you to get off an incendiary nade. (probably sacrificing the squad due to the nades SLOW dps)