[WM] Panzer Kampfwagen IV PoS or Decent?

BigDick

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Re: [WM] Panzer Kampfwagen IV PoS or Decent?

« Reply #60 on: May 19, 2011, 01:37:44 am »

Quote from: Tymathee on May 18, 2011, 01:12:34 pm

and an overall effectiveness increase. 5-10% incoming pen and damage against ALL AT is pretty dang good. Handheld AT would stay as is.

above

so thats what? hypothetical 500-1000mun for a P4 to negate the penetration increase an upgun sherman gets?

good job

how about we're making the jumbo a normal sherman that can buy skirts for 100 mun to reduce incomming penetration by 5-10%? How THAT sounds to you Tym?


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8thRifleRegiment Offline

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Re: [WM] Panzer Kampfwagen IV PoS or Decent?

« Reply #61 on: May 19, 2011, 06:23:52 am »

Eiether way the P4 needs love, currently you invest all this muni into a medium tank and it cannt stand up to another factions medium tank at all. i shouldnt need a panther to beat shermans if your talking tanks vs tanks.


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LeoPhone Offline

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Re: [WM] Panzer Kampfwagen IV PoS or Decent?

« Reply #62 on: May 19, 2011, 07:13:20 am »

8th,
PIV beats cromwell and 75mm sherman (be at distance for max effectiveness)

best chance against 76mm sherman is at close range but you won't beat it.


« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 09:26:23 am by LeoPhone »	Logged

panzerman Offline

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Re: [WM] Panzer Kampfwagen IV PoS or Decent?

« Reply #63 on: May 19, 2011, 07:22:16 am »

i thought that was the point of upgun sherman to be a counter to p4 sherman over the 75.


« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 08:53:15 am by panzerman »	Logged

NightRain Offline

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Re: [WM] Panzer Kampfwagen IV PoS or Decent?

« Reply #64 on: May 19, 2011, 09:54:06 am »

Quote from: panzerman on May 19, 2011, 07:22:16 am

i thought that was the point of upgun sherman to be a counter to p4 sherman over the 75.

Yes, but the 76mm Sherman fairs two times better than a 75mm. You get same damage, same splash, no reload penalty and good penetration increase


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Rocksitter Offline

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Re: [WM] Panzer Kampfwagen IV PoS or Decent?

« Reply #65 on: May 19, 2011, 11:04:58 am »

5 shots for a Tiger to kill Sherman wow...


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Tymathee Offline

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Re: [WM] Panzer Kampfwagen IV PoS or Decent?

« Reply #66 on: May 19, 2011, 02:34:02 pm »

Quote from: AmPM on May 18, 2011, 11:35:38 pm

Tym, if you are using HEAT with Tigers you are gimping yourself. They are much better with Elite Armor Grens than with a puny damage buff and Pen that doesn't help them much.

With Medium armor HEAT doesn't do a damned thing.

Tiger without HEAT does what, 127.5?

With HEAT its a whopping 146.6

You know how much of a difference that makes when shooting, lets say, a Sherman? NONE, its 5 shots either way.

All it does is maybe kill an M10 in 3 hits, compared to killing it in 4 hits but crippling it in 3...

Or you just vet up, get the +20% at vet 3, and call it a day either way. HEAT doesn't help at all once you get that.

Anyway, why not give P4's a high pen round that does the standard 87.5 damage? Oh no! Your Pershing can be countered by medium armor just like a Tiger!!!! QQ

tigers do 137.5 and 170 something with heat, its in the rgds on win 7 now so can't check. but who says i use tigers? i have one, i use ostwinds which are great with heat + the bottom t3 and rape lv's. you do what works for u and i do what works for me, dont knock what i do cuz u dont like it


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AmPM

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Re: [WM] Panzer Kampfwagen IV PoS or Decent?

« Reply #67 on: May 19, 2011, 04:07:37 pm »

Ah, so even less of an actual difference!

That makes HEAT so worthwhile!!

137.5 + 15% = 158.125 BTW, not 170....

So 3 shot an M10 or 3 shot an M10

4 shot a Sherman or....4 Shot a Sherman....

WOOO!! SUPER IMPROVEMENT!

Tym, try dropping HEAT, getting Battle Hardened, and laughing maniacally as your PWNSAUCE Grens support some marginally weaker Ostwinds.


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Hicks58 Offline

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Re: [WM] Panzer Kampfwagen IV PoS or Decent?

« Reply #68 on: May 19, 2011, 04:15:38 pm »

Take a look at the RGD's AmPM... Just looked at the Tiger HEAT round gun.

171.875 damage. Yeah, pretty sure Tym's got you there.


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NightRain Offline

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Re: [WM] Panzer Kampfwagen IV PoS or Decent?

« Reply #69 on: May 19, 2011, 04:39:49 pm »

Quote from: Hicks58 on May 19, 2011, 04:15:38 pm

Take a look at the RGD's AmPM... Just looked at the Tiger HEAT round gun.

171.875 damage. Yeah, pretty sure Tym's got you there.

I'm pretty sure ye are looking at the wrong place. AmPm is pretty much right. Gamewise too- I've never seen in any instance a Tiger 2 shooting a M10. If Tiger's HEAT boom would deal 171 damage per shot a Vet 3 Tiger would 2 shoot M10s. This however- does not happen. Therefore AmPm is right.

To the case of Panzer 4. It is just a munition hog that has very low cabilities to do anything. Unlike a Sherman this piece can't reliably charge a AT asset due to vehicle disablers, nor can it 2 shoot a rifle squad, and it has to worry about perma engine damage all the time due to sticky bombs and rather...rapid death from everything while buttoned. It can not take on M10s at all and due to M10s low cost in every part even in pop. What more can I say? P4 companies are a joke that people pretty much laughs at


« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 04:45:11 pm by NightRain »	Logged

PonySlaystation Offline

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Re: [WM] Panzer Kampfwagen IV PoS or Decent?

« Reply #70 on: May 19, 2011, 04:44:42 pm »

my tiger two shots m10s.


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NightRain Offline

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Re: [WM] Panzer Kampfwagen IV PoS or Decent?

« Reply #71 on: May 19, 2011, 04:45:27 pm »

Quote from: PonySlaystation on May 19, 2011, 04:44:42 pm

my tiger two shots m10s.

Replays to prove it, otherwise point invalid.


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panzerman Offline

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Re: [WM] Panzer Kampfwagen IV PoS or Decent?

« Reply #72 on: May 19, 2011, 04:47:47 pm »

2nd shot always get's them down to at least a third and with vet 3 sometimes down to destroyed gun if ur lucky.


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NightRain Offline

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Re: [WM] Panzer Kampfwagen IV PoS or Decent?

« Reply #73 on: May 19, 2011, 04:51:21 pm »

Quote from: panzerman on May 19, 2011, 04:47:47 pm

2nd shot always get's them down to at least a third and with vet 3 sometimes down to destroyed gun if ur lucky.

Vet 3 HEAT rounded Tiger does 189.75 damage per shot. It pretty much translates to 190 damage per shot. The second shot leaves 20 HP left for a M10 which means potential criticals might occur. This however does not mean that it will kill it due to it being 20 hp instead of 5 hp.


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Tymathee Offline

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Re: [WM] Panzer Kampfwagen IV PoS or Decent?

« Reply #74 on: May 19, 2011, 05:08:59 pm »

Quote from: AmPM on May 19, 2011, 04:07:37 pm

will u quit being so ruddy negative, play ur strat, i'll play mine. it works for me. look in sig, the 16-7 wm is my blitz with dual t3.


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AmPM

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Re: [WM] Panzer Kampfwagen IV PoS or Decent?

« Reply #75 on: May 19, 2011, 05:18:52 pm »

Which means very little since I know how you like to duck games...

Anyway, HEAT is far from the optimal choice. And if you are not using Tigers much you might think about dropping Panzer Aces too.

Switch to Lightning War and roll with that, faster Osts for better chasing and more kiting.


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Tymathee Offline

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Re: [WM] Panzer Kampfwagen IV PoS or Decent?

« Reply #76 on: May 19, 2011, 06:37:42 pm »

i'm working on getting lw to match my similar armor co y


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DarkSoldierX Offline

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Re: [WM] Panzer Kampfwagen IV PoS or Decent?

« Reply #77 on: May 19, 2011, 06:43:20 pm »

Quote from: Hicks58 on May 19, 2011, 04:15:38 pm

Take a look at the RGD's AmPM... Just looked at the Tiger HEAT round gun.

171.875 damage. Yeah, pretty sure Tym's got you there.

Yep RGD's got heat rounds gun.

But this doesnt mean the they get it. This could be a old weapon that isnt linked(most likely).

People would have caught on if this were true when they tried vet 3 tiger with heat rounds and they were doing superdamage.


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Quote from: BigDick on January 08, 2012, 06:47:44 am

*waiting* 4 DarkSoldierNoobiX pops up to prove how much shit the T17 is penetrating KTs back and Jagd front and how much better the ac/puma is penetrating m10 rear Cool