I think EIR Operators are being Relic Developers.

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[8thRifleRegiment]

Gud

[spinn72]

Don't know who you guys have been playing =\

[PonySlaystation]

RE is not OP, it's rather UP, mainly because it has no doctrine tree. The problem lies in it's simplicity. All you need is Flame sappers, Churchills and 17pndrs and you have a strong platform that requires practically no micro. Any new player can use this and still perform well in battle.

The problem can be broken down into two things

The low pop cost of Churchills.
and
Sapper flamers being a single platform without need for support.

The pop-tables for Churchills are currently
8 for AVRE - It has low pop but is still not useful because of the long cooldown, it should have increased pop and lowered cooldown so players are rewarded for using them actively. It doesn't pair well with another Churchill so it needs to act as a replacement for one with a slightly different role.
10 for IV - Too low
12 for VI - Too low
14 for Croc - Too low

Compared to other tanks they have pop levels equivalent of armored cars. The problem lies not in the Churchills, but rather their pop levels allowing players to have much more support than other heavy tank companies which have to rely on teamwork and coordination to archive success.

When the doctrine is implemented these values should be

12 for IV
14 for VI
16 for Croc

Unlike other factions, sappers don't have to rely on other units to cover them so most RE players have companies consisting entirely of sapper flamers and no other infantry. Again the problem is not that they're too strong but rather that they're very easy to use.

[Demon767]

Pony makes a successful point. +1

[RikiRude]

16 is fine for croc, it preforms the same as a tiger or sherman, but it's much worse vs other tanks, it just excels more vs infantry.

I have not used the VI, but the IV is total crap, it needs a low pop cap or else no one would ever bother to use them. even now no one uses them unless they dick around with it before they get the croc.

the flame sappers i haven't used myself, but seem incredibly strong.

[DarkSoldierX]

RE is not OP, it's rather UP, mainly because it has no doctrine tree. The problem lies in it's simplicity. All you need is Flame sappers, Churchills and 17pndrs and you have a strong platform that requires practically no micro. Any new player can use this and still perform well in battle.

The problem can be broken down into two things

The low pop cost of Churchills.
and
Sapper flamers being a single platform without need for support.

The pop-tables for Churchills are currently
8 for AVRE - It has low pop but is still not useful because of the long cooldown, it should have increased pop and lowered cooldown so players are rewarded for using them actively. It doesn't pair well with another Churchill so it needs to act as a replacement for one with a slightly different role.
10 for IV - Too low
12 for VI - Too low
14 for Croc - Too low

Compared to other tanks they have pop levels equivalent of armored cars. The problem lies not in the Churchills, but rather their pop levels allowing players to have much more support than other heavy tank companies which have to rely on teamwork and coordination to archive success.

When the doctrine is implemented these values should be

12 for IV
14 for VI
16 for Croc

Unlike other factions, sappers don't have to rely on other units to cover them so most RE players have companies consisting entirely of sapper flamers and no other infantry.

12 for a IV? its a freaking popgun thats slow as fuck. Doesnt kill anything at all. Theres a reason it cost less than a normal sherman. Hell this thing is so useless currently the devs said they plan on removing this retarded stepchild with no function. At 12 pop it would be even MORE useless.

14 for a VI? A jumbo is 13.  A jumbo has much superior armour and superior speed. They have same gun. Why should the VI be more pop than a jumbo if its worse?

16 for a croc? Alright croc does have good firepower, when its in range. A tiger of the same pop has better armour and can attack gib from a range rather than having to get in a bit closer. Tiger also has slightly better speed, and slightly better HP, oh and yeah, it can attack tanks. Yet somehow that warrants the same pop.

Flamer sappers CANT be used without support. Id like your  20 pop worth flamer sappers to meet my 9 pop worth of MGs. A flame sapper without the cover of smoke is a dead flame sapper to any good player. And dont say "well ermm i came from 5 different directions" Sure you did chap!


Please rethink your reasoning.

[TheVolskinator]

Put those sappers in multiple brens and add in a croc to really be a dbag about it. Schmidt has made his flamespam RE coy a trademark; he's the innovater of the newest craze afaik. Dont say 'get paks' or 'use tanks'; theres always a buttload of piat sappers in the van and paks get decrewed faster then you can type 'gg'.

[BigDick]

i played against that company more than one time and i had no probems at all to deal with the flame sappers and brens

the only thing i really hate (in general) are these churchill crocs pissing me off

fucking impenetrable overrepaired fag tanks

[PonySlaystation]

DarkSoldierX,
More pop does not necessarily mean they will perform worse. It means they will have less support available and have to rely more on teamwork and coordination, i.e using them as tanks.

You cannot compare a Churchill to a Tiger because they have different roles. And a 17pndr with a Churchill IV/VI will win against a Tiger any day without costing more pop.

The Jumbo is a bit low on pop, maybe it should be 14, considering how many pak shots it takes to kill them. But the same thing can be said here. Infantry players do not have access to 17pndrs. I don't think the VI has a lot worse armor than the Jumbo but you have to keep in mind that the Jumbo and Tiger are both
1: A T3 unlock
2: Much more expensive

[Demon767]

lmao darksoldier qq allies bias zomg bs

IV agreed not 12pop

VI 14pop +1 Jumbo should thus be brought inline to 14pop

Croc 16pop +1 Superior anti inf capabilities, superior armor to expensive axis AT and also has the ability to gain the 75mm sherman through doctrine and over repaired. all together you cant argue that it shouldnt be same as tiger.

[PonySlaystation]

I have not used the IV so I cannot speak on it's behalf.

[Mysthalin]

You cannot compare a Churchill to a Tiger because they have different roles. And a 17pndr with a Churchill IV/VI will win against a Tiger any day without costing more pop.

Yes you can compare the Churchill crocodile to a tiger. They are both respectively the staple heavy tanks of each doctrine - and the simple fact of the matter is that the Churchill croc is not as multi-functional as a tiger. It's sole advantage lies in it's superior reliability in killing infantry - but in all other cases the tiger trumps it. The tiger's multi-functionality is what ensures that it should (and does) cost more popcap than the Churchill crocodile.

And you are aware that the VI with a 17 pdr actually costs MORE than a tiger in popcap, right? And whether you'll win or not is actually very much so up for debate. Effective blocking with the Churchill is questionable due to it's speed, and it's not exactly got the damage output to create much of a deterrant to the tiger with the threat of shooting the tiger's rear armour.

Infantry players do not have access to 17pndrs

While having access to TR ATGs, bazookas, stickies and other quite efficient methods of anti-tank. And yes, the jumbo armour is MUCH superior to Churchill armour. We're talking utterly retarded superiority. As such, it is completely warranted that it is both more expensive and costs a higher amount of popcap.

And get this in your head people. Being a T3 unlock is about as relevant as Oprah's vagina - in terms of battlefield capability it pretty much means nothing, as the unlocks are not balanced cross-factionally. They are merely an indicator of the degree of versatility they provide compared to other unlocks in the doctrine.

[PonySlaystation]

And get this in your head people. Being a T3 unlock is about as relevant as Oprah's vagina - in terms of battlefield capability it pretty much means nothing, as the unlocks are not balanced cross-factionally. They are merely an indicator of the degree of versatility they provide compared to other unlocks in the doctrine.

In this case it's very relevant. The 17pndr for example is a T1 while the pak40 is a T3. Ingame this means that a RE can have access to over-repair and other unlocks and still have the 17pndr which is a pretty clear advantage over Defensive.

EDIT: I just noticed that 17pndr are 6 pop so perhaps the values I presented are a bit too much.

VI should be 13
Croc should be 15
Jumbo should be 14

[Unkn0wn]

Flamethrower sappers are not going to stay in their current format by the way, we'll probably make a new sapper unit for them.

[Mister Schmidt]

My new unit?

Also..

VI 14pop +1 Jumbo should thus be brought inline to 14pop

We are focusing on this issue, please do not bring up any others, or "If thats OP why cant this be" arguments.

[BigDick]

Flamethrower sappers are not going to stay in their current format by the way, we'll probably make a new sapper unit for them.

how about flame tommies with stens? 

[Scotzmen]

Commandos with 2 flame throwers...

[rifle87654]

Why can a firefly outrange a tiger?
Why should 57mm even do dmg to a tiger's frontal armor at long range?
Is it for balance?

[deadbolt]

gtfo smokaz

[deadbolt]

Flamethrower sappers are not going to stay in their current format by the way, we'll probably make a new sapper unit for them.

should make them that hero unit from coh:o. the engis with 2 flamethrowers, just make them sappers and make them doctrinal tbfh.