So.... TERMS OF AGREEMENT?

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[cloud234]

Schmidt put up an interesting thread.

Lets face it. When one of your "inner guard" gets thrashed really hard by a smurf, and gets really mad, the admin powers that be looks up SQL, ip addresses and as much information as they can get their hands on to pinpoint who the smurf is.

EDIT: That is to name one of the many practices here which "uses information" collected.

Why why why why pretend to be righteous when you blatantly do it?

I'm not upset or anything. Its just funny, if not exceeding hypocritical to do so.

If that doesn't constitute as "collecting information" and "passing on information", which is done in many more ways than one. What does? Corporations do that as well (how do you think you receive all that advertising junk xD )

The classic response is to issue a statement and lock the thread. Pardon me if this forum is turning out to be a political satire  

[brn4meplz]

I'll have you know I look up everyone long before they smash me.

We've got Anti-Smurfing tools in place for a reason we just have not reached the stage where we've begun enforcing them heavily.


If there is a large skill difference between Newguy28, and expertsmurf 501, then something needs to be said.

[RikiRude]

my problem with smurfs is there will be two games up, one with some new axis players, and smurf allied players, and another game with new allied players and smurf axis. If the smurf fucks had their names up, you could set up counter stacks, and get the new guys to play together. I hate smurf stacks as well, especially when people build their companies around each other.

But at the same time, I'm not a super skilled player, I consider myself average, maybe better than average at times, so I don't have to put up with getting dodged, so I don't know what that's like.

Also the worst part is when people smurf because they THINK they are good and will be dodged. XD

[brn4meplz]

Also nothing on the internet is a democracy. Every forum, board, page or site is at best a benevolent dictatorship.

We have run these boards in the past like a police state(because there has been times when it was required) The amount of moderation is directly related to the amount of self moderation by the community. Much like protestors, if the mob gets out of hand, authority intervenes.


To the question of collecting information, we have to do that. Otherwise we wouldn't have a mod. You provide a username and a password. Your internet browser stores Cookies to better recall information. The nature of the internet is the collection of information. Thats how it functions.

We've a good reason to log IP's and it's pretty standard practice. Considering what some sites can learn from you, a region IP is very little information

[Killer344]

What hypocrisy are you talking about? I also look up for smurfs all the time, I never denied it if someone asked. Smurfing is frowned upon, but not controllable. The way games are set encourages smurfing right now... there is not much we can do about it atm.

[Katusha]

So why do mods smurf if it is "frowned upon" ?

[PonySlaystation]

What hypocrisy are you talking about? I also look up for smurfs all the time, I never denied it if someone asked. Smurfing is frowned upon, but not controllable. The way games are set encourages smurfing right now... there is not much we can do about it atm.

I disagree, a player with a new company will be disadvantageous compared to an older company. The only ones who smurf and are actually good enough to make a difference are Panda and Seanconnery (ps: they both fail if they have new companies) and you can identify them faster than you can shit. Most people who smurf do so because they play so horribly bad, so I can't really see any difference between players who has a new company, they're all new to me.

[Killer344]

huh... you do realize there are smurfs with 50+ games? Some people just became too good at doing it.

[DarkSoldierX]

Lets face it. When one of your "inner guard" gets thrashed really hard by a smurf, and gets really mad, the admin powers that be looks up SQL, ip addresses and as much information as they can get their hands on to pinpoint who the smurf is.

Your sort of assuming that they do, you have no proof, and I doubt they do rage like that, and if they do ok, who cares?
 What is he going to do?

Go on forums and tell everybody hes a smurf? Really doesn't matter.

[PonySlaystation]

huh... you do realize there are smurfs with 50+ games? Some people just became too good at doing it.

Yeah, but after 3 games you'll know who they are, after 50 games they're no longer smurfs, everyone know exactly who they are, if not by their exact names then by their playstyle.

Plus I wouldn't say players creating new companies is a bad thing, that way they'll dare to play when odds might not be on their side cause they have a new company or try out new strategies.

[spinn72]

Some of us do use alternate names, they shouldn't be encouraged, and if you come up against someone you know is using a smurf then as a community member you should be posting who they are in chat so everyone knows. I believe it is against EIRR guidelines to prevent giving your real alias when someone asks, but it is not illegal to use a different name. Just ask smurfs what their real name is, if they don't post it, screenshot and start posting in abuse thread?

[Killer344]

Alright, who's babylon90's smurf for example? He's 16th on the leaderboard.

He has like 5 accounts with more than 50+ games.

[Demon767]

Spinn/Enkk is right, im pretty sure there is a guideline that if you are asked what smurf account your on you have the responsibility to respond in truth.

[PonySlaystation]

babylon90 = Killer344

[Sachaztan]

babylon90 = Killer344

Klockan är 5 på morgonen, varför är du vaken nu ?

[Killer344]

rofl, thanks for proving my point.

[PonySlaystation]

Klockan är 5 på morgonen, varför är du vaken nu ?

I went to bed early so I woke up early. Seriously, use pm function.

Oh wait, I had you guys confused, EliteGren is babylon90.

Killer couldn't be babylon he's barely average LOL

[Killer344]

At least you hit the continent this time, but good luck, keep trying.

[Smokaz]

Also nothing on the internet is a democracy. Every forum, board, page or site is at best a benevolent dictatorship.

We have run these boards in the past like a police state(because there has been times when it was required) The amount of moderation is directly related to the amount of self moderation by the community. Much like protestors, if the mob gets out of hand, authority intervenes.


To the question of collecting information, we have to do that. Otherwise we wouldn't have a mod. You provide a username and a password. Your internet browser stores Cookies to better recall information. The nature of the internet is the collection of information. Thats how it functions.

We've a good reason to log IP's and it's pretty standard practice. Considering what some sites can learn from you, a region IP is very little information

That's not all it's being used for, however. It's evident it goes to use for personal, non-rule related uses. Why - would for instance - if the smurfing rules is there to protect - a smurf account that has marked itself against the rules in no way - be "checked out"? Killer obviously checked out my account very recently - not that it wasn't already check out by "others" (hello elitegren). This account which had played random games with random players after the initial "welcome, we know you". It was just "checked out". And the data collected (as unknown did not realize) is compared to previously collected private information just for "lolz".

The problematic thing here is the casual attitude around player's IPs. IPs should not be viewed, used or compared unless it is for the purpose of IP banning a cheater/griefer/other rule infraction. And information derived from a private information, should stay private. In time it will be a arms race between people valuing their privacy and and the controllers. At it definitely is no kind of self-regulation to allow attached players to regulate other players but with the additional power of sitting on private information.

Now EIRR is a game. Let me ask you, Brn. Would you mind having no control over whether or not your local organisation or sports team (that you play games with) were sharing your home adress with strangers or with people you have no contact with? Would it trouble you that people using your IP could circle in on your home address, thus your phone number (if you are registered somewhere), your name, family members, your employment and so on?

The IP addie is ONE the starting point for a chain of revelations about someone's private information. The counter-argument here could be "are you serious? do you really think someone would do that?"

The thing is you dont expect someone to do stuff like that to you. It happens to "others" or it "almost never happens". But what keeps the security hole open? A casual attitude to other people's private information.

"We've a good reason to log IP's and it's pretty standard practice."

What's standard practise is a TOS. Terms of Service. What's standard practise, is to inform the user of what data is being collected. There is a reason why non-malicious software asks you if you wish to be a part of survey or be collected usage information from. Because that's whats considered polite. That's what's considered correct. Now if a unnoticed program is sending information to a server about your used time in a browser without your knowledge or consent, would you consider that ethical or irrelevant? What if some health food company or gym adverts use this to advertise against you? Would you like anyone you know - your mother - your wife - to have access to the amount of time you spend at the computer playing games or cruising porn sites?

A common clause would be - like the error message in XP when windows wants to send a error report - "this information will not be used to identify you".
Or. "This information WILL be used for indentifying you, should you break rules."

The funny thing around here is the assured belief in your own reasons. Images like "Police states" etc just show a lack of reflection here. You would not appreciate demasking, identification by country et cetera to be done to you!

[PonySlaystation]

I had you confused cause you're both lamers who only play clear cut stomps and only with each other.

Babylon90 is still EliteGren though.