[ALL] Manpower Cost of Vehicles

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[BigDick]

I think it would make sense if LV were a bit less expensive. Right now if you have the fuel for it you can just buy tanks instead for just 100 manpower more.

you really think so? i have to say i disagree

i usually don't like pure spam (even when i might had some spamy companies) thats why i wouldn't like to play those company all the time but when there wasn't availability system 18-20M8 (preferable with double repair) + 8 AT guns would be a pure rape armor company thats 100000000x times better than getting tanks for fuel

[TheVolskinator]

Some of the LVs, halftracks especially, could go down in price in the MP department. Medium armor costs for MGs and other odds and ends (skirts, overdrive, upgun, crab flail) could go down marginally by 5-10 MU, attachment dependant. Other than that, I think the prices are damn near perfect for every unit in EiR.

[WildZontar]

actually quite a bit of good players agrees with this one,tiger withouth aces and buffs it is shitty tank...if you have used one,you'd knew that...

Give me a list of people pl0x. I'm pretty sure the tank itself is fine and it's just the person who uses it that has a problem with it.

[Demon767]

bottom line, we are buffing LV spam and nerfing the rest of the builds. make sense?

[PonySlaystation]

you really think so? i have to say i disagree

i usually don't like pure spam (even when i might had some spamy companies) thats why i wouldn't like to play those company all the time but when there wasn't availability system 18-20M8 (preferable with double repair) + 8 AT guns would be a pure rape armor company thats 100000000x times better than getting tanks for fuel

No, it's not better. LV are too expensive manpower wise and limited by pool values. Plus I said stuart and puma and they aren't really useful enough to be priced so high.

bottom line, we are buffing LV spam and nerfing the rest of the builds. make sense?

No, you have completely misunderstood what this thread is about. Right now it's never worth it to have a Stuart or Puma when you can have a Cromwell or Ostwind for just 100 manpower more.

[DarkSoldierX]

bottom line, we are buffing LV spam and nerfing the rest of the builds. make sense?

Essentially, but very slightly, Yes. With what I propose LV's will still have a significant amount of less manpower.

Just that now, for example, a player with two pershings has a rifleman squad and a half less now.

I believe it is unfair that the LV and medium player is forced into having that much less infantry compared to a heavy player, even though he has to micro more.

[smurfORnot]

Give me a list of people pl0x. I'm pretty sure the tank itself is fine and it's just the person who uses it that has a problem with it.

enkk asked me,why would I even want to use tiger,if I have Join ops,and not tiger aces...
Myst and Night also told that Tiger is shitty...

guess they are not good enough to claim that 

there were others too,cant remembre every single one...

[AmPM]

No, it's not better. LV are too expensive manpower wise and limited by pool values. Plus I said stuart and puma and they aren't really useful enough to be priced so high.

No, you have completely misunderstood what this thread is about. Right now it's never worth it to have a Stuart or Puma when you can have a Cromwell or Ostwind for just 100 manpower more.

This has to do with bad unit performance, not their cost. There is not point in a high pen, low damage Light Vehicle, they die too fast.

[PonySlaystation]

This has to do with bad unit performance, not their cost. There is not point in a high pen, low damage Light Vehicle, they die too fast.

Well, yes but price is based on unit performance and it doesn't seem like anyone wants them to have a small buff.

[Mysthalin]

enkk asked me,why would I even want to use tiger,if I have Join ops,and not tiger aces...
Myst and Night also told that Tiger is shitty...

guess they are not good enough to claim that 

there were others too,cant remembre every single one...

I don't claim the Tiger is shit in it's essence objectively - it is shit in my frame of mind which values speed as the number one winning trait.

I have, and will see many amazing tigers that rape the shit out of not only the enemy team but their offspring for 4 generations to come - and I am fully aware of the potential it has. Even without doctrine abilities. Objectively, I know full well it's a good, balanced unit.

Subjectively, however, I think it's too risky an investment that is too slow for what I want my vehicles to do. Hence, I don't like it. Could be good with lightning war though.

[Hicks58]

Though tbh Myst, if it has wheels or tracks and doesn't make a speed of at least 6, you dont care for it. :p

[Mysthalin]

I kind of like Fireflies, Panthers and sometimes have illicit love affairs with Pershings when nobody is watching...

And the Jagdpanther is the fat girl with the awesome sense of humour that I love to be with but would never tell my friends about.

[TheVolskinator]

You would pick the fat chick ^^

Pershing is meh. Jagdpanther = <3. Panthers, ditto, <3, fireflies are complete and utter shit and I hope the unit rolls over and dies 1000 times over.

[NightRain]

You would pick the fat chick ^^

Pershing is meh. Jagdpanther = <3. Panthers, ditto, <3, fireflies are complete and utter shit and I hope the unit rolls over and dies 1000 times over.

I disagree with the firefly.

The only fault with Firefly is the driver who is apperantly Scottish and on top of it DRUNK. Or then it is a Polish or French driver...I'm willing to bet that it is a Scottish Driver that drives the tank to walls and to rocks etc to make the pathing of the thing so good that you want to rip your hair out and eat it on top of it.

And I do claim tiger be shitty in every aspect. I don't see any strenght in it, only weaknesses.

[brn4meplz]

The Firefly is weaker then it's vCoH counterpart and has needed love for ages. Because it's the only unit to fill it's role people weren't aware of how crummy it was and just tried to manage as best they could.

[NightRain]

The Firefly is weaker then it's vCoH counterpart and has needed love for ages. Because it's the only unit to fill it's role people weren't aware of how crummy it was and just tried to manage as best they could.

Explain a bit more in Detail

Weaker?

[brn4meplz]

Does less damage overall compared to vCoH

[Mysthalin]

Does less damage overall compared to vCoH

With a reduced reload time? Really?

If anything at it's current stage the firefly is the BEST anti-tank tank in the game, given proper use. A CCT extrapolates this even further.

I'm sensing a case of L2P.

[NightRain]

With a reduced reload time? Really?

If anything at it's current stage the firefly is the BEST anti-tank tank in the game, given proper use. A CCT extrapolates this even further.

I'm sensing a case of L2P.

+1

[cloud234]

I've mentioned already before that Heavies + Super Heavies take out more than their equivalent in share of Manpower, munition and sometimes even fuel cost.

The major difference is really the munition sink between Light/Medium and Heavies. You usually need (an estimate) of 100 munitions or so to make those vehicles useful whereas a single Heavy can soak up way more damage for the same munition investment.

Picture a normal Sherman vs Jumbo.
You need a repair 50Mu + MG 50Mu to make it a dedicated anti-inf solution. Just slap a repair (80Mu? there abouts) and you have a panther skirted armour that can take more punishment and deal as much damage (free MG unlike normal sherman)

---

Mediums are really quite well balanced for what they do. Its the heavies which are out of place and need more munitions tied down to them.

The problem with putting manpower tanks is that you reduce the supply of manpower to other troops, which changes the ratio of leftover, munitiosn to manpower.... which translates to even more weapons for the troops. As there is usually not enough fuel for more than 5 Medium or 2 Heavies (maybe add 1 medium), your increase by 15%-25% translates to a loss of about 2 infantry squads in total.

If you balance tanks by that logic, they will hit the point of a normal allied/axis sniper where they often do not pay back their costs and require tremendous amount of skill and micro to make back its cost... as well as the OPPORTUNITY COST incurred in keeping it alive / pop-cap sink.

I think the biggest issue is the Mu investment for Medium armor.

He has it spot on... but I think it should be rephrased as the biggest issue is the lack of MU COST for heavies.