The Terror Problem (particularly with Oak Leaves)

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[RikiRude]

Medkits have a delay before they start up the healing aspect, it's a good way to end up dead if something comes out of the darkness that you are not expecting because you move at -1 speed.

i use the terror T2 that heals more and less movement penalty

[spinn72]

Make the enemy fear the treads of your glorious allied tanks!

[AmPM]

My BAR rifles eat KCH all day. Its just silly. Fearless? Still suffer penalties and count as suppressed. 3 BAR per squad +33% damage is like walking into 3 lmgs worth of damage. You will lose the battle of attrition. I usually kill a KCH squad to 1 man while also losing the BAR. Guess which you can have more of.

[smurfORnot]

so all those KCH with full equipment,each +200mun,5-6 paks,not much muni left for anything else...each KCH unit should atleast kill 2 full squads of rifles with bars and nades to earn points back...

[DarkSoldierX]

so all those KCH with full equipment,each +200mun,5-6 paks,not much muni left for anything else...each KCH unit should atleast kill 2 full squads of rifles with bars and nades to earn points back...

Actually I found out that g-wagons WAS a good alternative to paks due to them not costing much less mu.

And the reason why I saw WAS is that they got nerfed, they god more shockfactor but there reload was increased by a crapload in the process. There DPS went down significantly regardless of doing more dmg per shot.

[TheVolskinator]

If KCH are lolwtfpwning you on their own or in groups of two, youre doing it wrong. You should have your units tiered so you can continually fall back, leapfrog style, causing damage to them while staying at range and receiving little in return. American MGs also deal a hefty amount of DPS, not to mention the horde of units that should be present if its a team game. Focus fire, anyone?

Inf T3 BARs do rape practically everything, which as a biased american player, I think is great--however, it definately needs looking in to (which, in my much-hated doctrinal unlocks document, I'm thinking if several alternate solutions to the problem including offering different SL weapons in accordance to chosen upgrades, instead of +1 of that weapon.)

[RikiRude]

If KCH are lolwtfpwning you on their own or in groups of two, youre doing it wrong. You should have your units tiered so you can continually fall back, leapfrog style, causing damage to them while staying at range and receiving little in return. American MGs also deal a hefty amount of DPS, not to mention the horde of units that should be present if its a team game. Focus fire, anyone?

Inf T3 BARs do rape practically everything, which as a biased american player, I think is great--however, it definately needs looking in to (which, in my much-hated doctrinal unlocks document, I'm thinking if several alternate solutions to the problem including offering different SL weapons in accordance to chosen upgrades, instead of +1 of that weapon.)

problem is that T3 is fucking great for bars, but mediocre for grease guns and thompsons.

[smurfORnot]

and where is the problem? spam bar's as most allied players do 

[Tymathee]

so what about the brits, they dont get bars and it seems that according to AmPM HIS Bars do the job but I guess normal bars dont. It's hard as heck to suppress Oak Leaves, that's without a doubt. It makes it moot to even own hmgs when they're about.

[AmPM]

For Brits its even easier. Staghound, done.

[smurfORnot]

bren mmg?

[DarkSoldierX]

*sigh* and we all know the counters to those vehicles... and seriously oak leaves tend to get away from them without loosing a man

[AmPM]

That works too. I like the Stag myself.

Lol?! I kill Oak Leaves with M18's with a .50cal, what are you talking about? lol

[DarkSoldierX]

Both of those weapons tend to not fare as well against heroic armour.

Now what a M18 can do is possibly run a man or perhaps 2 over before getting killed by AT if we assume the kch have no scouter, and the player is lesser skilled.

[AmPM]

Heroic Armor doesn't do anything besides mean he can't die in 1 hit, like from a sniper....

They do just fine vs KCH.

Im thinking the fail is on the side of the player, and not the balance of the doctrine.

[DarkSoldierX]

Heroic Armor doesn't do anything besides mean he can't die in 1 hit, like from a sniper....

They do just fine vs KCH.

Im thinking the fail is on the side of the player, and not the balance of the doctrine.

I am afraid you don't understand. Staghounds have less acc vs heroic. .50 mg on the hellcat and Sherman(and probably others) deal significantly less DPS vs heroic due to less acc and alot less dmg. And many small arms have reductions vs heroic too.

But one big sexy thing about it is the half received suppression vs KCH.

Although the armour does nothing for those pesky sherman shots, the high HP of the KCH allows him to eat a shot and run away, and the only way the sherman will kill the man is if it rushes forward, into the AT, hurting his ass, and if he wants to go farther hes going to get some serious pain. And the beuty is that the KCH will just heal up. And oaks have the advantage of 33% increased firepower over normal KCH for only 20% increased pop.

But thats not the big problem with them being OP.

Oaks have the advantage of 33% increased firepower over normal KCH for only 20% increased pop.

Normal KCH is - 96.6 manpower per man and 36.6 mu per man

Oak leaves is - 95 manpower per man and 35 mu per man.

Shouldn't that extra MP44 for only 1 pop more have a larger price to it?

And his med kit and assault upgrades cost the same as a normal KCH, when technically they should cost more as you get more. (3 man kch assault vs 4 man kch assault, Or 3 man healing over 4 man healing)

And assault is overpowered in its epic pwnage.

So basically what I propose to do to oak KCH is -

Remove assault def bonuses(main problem, being discussed in another thread)

Increase assault cost by 5 mu

Increase Oak leaves manpower cost by 20
Increase Oak leaves munitions cost by 10

MAYBE increase medkit cost by 5 mu

[AmPM]

I am afraid you don't understand. Staghounds have less acc vs heroic. .50 mg on the hellcat and Sherman(and probably others) deal significantly less DPS vs heroic due to less acc and alot less dmg. And many small arms have reductions vs heroic too.

But one big sexy thing about it is the half received suppression vs KCH.

Although the armour does nothing for those pesky sherman shots, the high HP of the KCH allows him to eat a shot and run away, and the only way the sherman will kill the man is if it rushes forward, into the AT, hurting his ass, and if he wants to go farther hes going to get some serious pain. And the beuty is that the KCH will just heal up. And oaks have the advantage of 33% increased firepower over normal KCH for only 20% increased pop.

But thats not the big problem with them being OP.

Oaks have the advantage of 33% increased firepower over normal KCH for only 20% increased pop.

Normal KCH is - 96.6 manpower per man and 36.6 mu per man

Oak leaves is - 95 manpower per man and 35 mu per man.

Shouldn't that extra MP44 for only 1 pop more have a larger price to it?

And his med kit and assault upgrades cost the same as a normal KCH, when technically they should cost more as you get more. (3 man kch assault vs 4 man kch assault, Or 3 man healing over 4 man healing)

And assault is overpowered in its epic pwnage.

So basically what I propose to do to oak KCH is -

Remove assault def bonuses(main problem, being discussed in another thread)

Increase assault cost by 5 mu

Increase Oak leaves manpower cost by 20
Increase Oak leaves munitions cost by 10

MAYBE increase medkit cost by 5 mu

I'm afraid you are confusing the Elite Armor with Heroic Criticals =)

Heroic just means you don't die in one hit. Elite gives -accuracy and damage.

They have both. Either way, KCH are easy to deal with. They cost at least 50% than a BAR Rifle allowing you to easily kill them 1 for 1 and win. The key is to eliminate the Ambulance or Medic Bunker. Just like you would a Triage Center.

[8thRifleRegiment]

silly ampm, why would allies want to put effort into micro to win battles?

They like just walking up to things and winning -_-

[DarkSoldierX]

I'm afraid you are confusing the Elite Armor with Heroic Criticals =)

Heroic just means you don't die in one hit. Elite gives -accuracy and damage.

They have both. Either way, KCH are easy to deal with. They cost at least 50% than a BAR Rifle allowing you to easily kill them 1 for 1 and win. The key is to eliminate the Ambulance or Medic Bunker. Just like you would a Triage Center.

Omg, you dont know heroic armour exist?

Go to coh stats for christ sakes lol.

You have been in EiR for a long time, you have lots of experience AmPM, I don't know how you don't know that.


If you doubt the picture go to cohstats. If you doubt it even more go to RGD's yourself.

silly ampm, why would allies want to put effort into micro to win battles?

They like just walking up to things and winning -_-

Thats pretty much what I do with my oakleaves lol, oh yeah thats right i must left click to activate assault ooh i forgot.

[Tymathee]

silly ampm, why would allies want to put effort into micro to win battles?

They like just walking up to things and winning -_-

You mean like Axis players do? Oh look a blob of 4 rofles, i'll just run up my 2 kch, toss assault and pwn, ef those bars, can't hurt me while they're running and then get suppressed