Nebelwerfer nebelnerfed to oblivion

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[Smokaz]

Anyone else noticed this? Im talking about the normal, unbuffed nebelwerfer. Without the building crits the unit is incapable of hurting infantry within buildings. Great playtesting of the no-crit change!

It should have its cooldown reduced on the basic unit to make up for it losing so much killing power. Its really nerfed from what it used to be now. I cant defend/justify buying it anymore, and I've pretty much used a nebelwerfer in all my wehr companies regardless of doctrine since.. forever.

[Tymathee]

i think it's still good but it needs the fuel and mp price lowered.

should be about 350 35 50

400, 35, 100 is too much, even with the old crits it was iffy to have it

[RikiRude]

i miss those instant deaths, it def was a benefit of using it.

[Tymathee]

i'd like to see them do more damage on hit. as of now teh fire does most of the damage

so either make it so it does more dmg on hit or nerf the price

[RikiRude]

does the nebel still get the kill if it's the fire that kills?

[DarkSoldierX]

Loosing instakill wasn't that big of a deal lol.

does the nebel still get the kill if it's the fire that kills?

Yes.

[Vermillion_Hawk]

I liked it better as a tool for suppressing or harrassing squads/support units left within range. Send in some elite infantry after the rockets land and everything would be pretty much dead. Although it was extremely useful for clearing out buildings.

[Smokaz]

Loosing instakill wasn't that big of a deal lol.
Yes.

Its a big deal to me if buildings now protect against it 100%, negating its supression AND its meager damage.

[Groundfire]

I thought some kind of burn damage was added when fired vs. a building.

Tbh, it should set the whole thing on fire and force the unit inside to vacate, but it looks like that this is not the case.

[LeoPhone]

it will set buildings on fire now, resulting in the entire building becoming ungarrisonable (forcing people out as well)

[Smokaz]

it will set buildings on fire now, resulting in the entire building becoming ungarrisonable (forcing people out as well)

Is this 100% working?

Because I've been hitting buildings and doing no damage, and not vacating the troops inside. Does it actually forcibly exit them?

[LeoPhone]

the crit doesn't always happen probably.

you can see the roof being on fire.

[Smokaz]

Burning roofs are nice and all, but its the units being forced out of a building and unable to re-enter that would interest any practical player.

I dont really understand why the nebel crits were removed, it was its main selling point in a game where british infantry hardly get supressed by nebel rockets hitting them in the open outside of direct hits and almost all allied infantry have a escape mechanism. Mortars can just pack up and go back to the triage, at guns the same.

I trail the balance forum looking for a thread about it being OP, but I cant find one.

Bad, bad ninja change or at least a change without much concern for being a good change.

[Groundfire]

Burning roofs are nice and all, but its the units being forced out of a building and unable to re-enter that would interest any practical player.

I dont really understand why the nebel crits were removed, it was its main selling point in a game where british infantry hardly get supressed by nebel rockets hitting them in the open outside of direct hits and almost all allied infantry have a escape mechanism. Mortars can just pack up and go back to the triage, at guns the same.

I trail the balance forum looking for a thread about it being OP, but I cant find one.

Bad, bad ninja change or at least a change without much concern for being a good change.

It's not a ninja change, it was deemed a bug during the vCoH balance beta and they removed it. We just tacked on building damage for added flavor.

It was removed because losing a full squad to a crit with no possibility of saving or reaction time or retreating the squad is stupid. At least that is my opinion, but it largely is the reason for why it was removed in vCoH.

[Smokaz]

Allied artillery can take out mortars and infantry squads in one hit on the first hit. Nebel wasn't even close to that power level. The unit itself can be decrewed by a jeep or almost any other unit.

To "save" your squad, all you needed to do was exit the building. No truthful player can claim that there's a realistic chance of your precious squad being instagibbed or raped without being able to retreat or attempt escape if you just exited the squad from a obvious building. It's not like you get a loud sound warning that the nebel is firing right?

Nebel simply does little to no damage normally, it merely annoys and supresses. It has a pretty short cooldown to compensate for it. Nebel was fine before and got zero compensation for this unfair reduction in its capability.

It was removed because losing a full squad to a crit with no possibility of saving or reaction time or retreating the squad is stupid.

You get plenty of warning. Nebel decloaks in FOW showing the direction of its fire, the sound starts from BEFORE the first rocket is fired. How much warning does a player need then, if this is not sufficient?

The result right now from testing is that infantry can just sit inside the building most of the time, safe from the nebel. The worst examples is ones where they do not even take damage from rockets hitting the building.

[Groundfire]

It's a suppression platform, use it as such.

You get plenty of warning for everything, but the nebel's scatter is imfamous and if it just so much as clip the hit box of the building, then the crit could be applied, and you had whole squads dieing when they were on the other side of the building and had no feasible way of being in contact with the rocket.

This is absolutely unlike every other artillery in the game, where you can theoretically clip a squad and kill it entirely.

Yeah, you compare the neb to other heavier arty, but people shell out big MP and Fuel for a howie to do half as many kills as the old nebs did. I never said that you didnt have warning, but in a persistancy mod, it's unrealistically gamey to be able to kill a squad like that from a platform that should not have that capability while they are hiding in a refuge that is nominally safe from all arty fire in the first place.

[Spartan_Marine88]

i have gotten 20 kills off of a random scatter barrage once

[Audemed]

I just unlocked Napalm on my nebelnerfer yesterday, and the firestorm was....the same? I used firestorm twice, went "WTF", used regular barrage, and it's identical?

[CrazyWR]

I agree with both Smokaz and Audemed.  The nebel needs looked at, because right now, it is a shell of its former self.  It was balanced fine before, now it is less useful.  The Napalm barrage seems identical like Audemed said.  So some sort of explanation for that and a fix on the building problem would be awesome.

[DarkSoldierX]

Firestorm is less suppression 2x the dmg. AKA you use it dmg tanks.(terror T3)


Napalm is 50% more dmg(the def T3)

Could be more unique IMO.

And would be alright to give nebel DOT better penetration/dmg vs infantry in buildings.