[PE] APCR T4 Nerf to Marders

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[NightRain]

Why did the Marders recieve a Nerf in this specific Tier 4?

Disclaimer:
I've read about it in patch notes however it has never been fixed in the APCR describtion as it still says Marders do get it however that patch note from X patch says that it has been nerfed therefore I'm not entirely sure has it been implemented/Removed but I've never seen any indication that it has been removed but I do know that it has been added.

The 20% more damage that stacked with Lockdown wasn't ridicilous at all. It was exactly 198 damage per shot in lockdown which made the thing completely immobile for x ammount of time before it could relocate.

Generally this thing matched around the same damage numbers as a T4 Tank Reapers which granted the ability to 3 shoot P4s with AP rounds invested

+ it came with a much more survivable platform which is also recrewable plus is cheaper as it costs munitions instead of precious fuel which is bread and butter of the Panzer Elite.

The only bonus Marder had was that it could chase targets like a M10 which often results into a suicide.

So- devs, why was Marder's APCR Bonus nerfed?

[Scotzmen]

Too much rape tbh. Even you said yourself.

[Smokaz]

Three shots, you're out vs shermans? Not cool.

Marders is super cheap and very good atm as a base platform, the th buffs just makes it a no-brainer.

[NightRain]

Three shots, you're out vs shermans? Not cool.

Marders is super cheap and very good atm as a base platform, the th buffs just makes it a no-brainer.

Nope. Non-vet Marder in Lockdown 4 shoots Shermans. Same as Tank Reaper Anti tank gun with AP rounds does to a P4.

Marder itself is fragile piece of a anti tank gun and can not be recrewed if destroyed unlike 57mm and 6pdrs.

[hans]

Nope. Non-vet Marder in Lockdown 4 shoots Shermans. Same as Tank Reaper Anti tank gun with AP rounds does to a P4.

Marder itself is fragile piece of a anti tank gun and can not be recrewed if destroyed unlike 57mm and 6pdrs.

if u destroy an atgun u also cant recrew it 

[Tymathee]

but uh, you have to buy the ap rounds to get the same bonus that a locked down marder gets the whole game. ap rounds are two shots, so uh, yeah.

also marders are faster, have a higher rof than atgs so you get those 4 shots in a smaller amount of time, c'mon dude.

[hans]

but uh, you have to buy the ap rounds to get the same bonus that a locked down marder gets the whole game. ap rounds are two shots, so uh, yeah.

also marders are faster, have a higher rof than atgs so you get those 4 shots in a smaller amount of time, c'mon dude.

and they can turn much faster then the atgun so its for me totaly clear

marder is more effective then an atgun

[NightRain]

but uh, you have to buy the ap rounds to get the same bonus that a locked down marder gets the whole game. ap rounds are two shots, so uh, yeah.

also marders are faster, have a higher rof than atgs so you get those 4 shots in a smaller amount of time, c'mon dude.

Except they are vulnerable to anti tank guns which they die to quite quickly. Plus ATG with Tank Reapers deals 180 per shot. Adding in veterancy (which is not hard to gain and also very easy to keep) They get 20% additional when adding in AP rounds one can already count the delicious ammount of damage that'll deal.

This comes on every ATG bought in company.

In Marders case the mobility indeed is reward and granting it to work as a M10 everynow and then with a high risk. Plus the use of Anti tank guns in support nullifies the use of Marder quite quickly and PE is famous for it having very little versus anti tank gun walls.

Nontheless when Marder uses lockdown- it loses its mobility and gains those bonuses it gets from lockdown and APCR making it a deadly standstill unit. However this does NOT mean it won't be fragile. It is still the same damn marder. It is easy to circle strafe and this has been proved to me with a single M10 vs single Marder. M10 won every single time. Unlike circlestrafing a anti tank gun you get the crew off and therefore have the chance to recrew the gun alas with the marder it is dead it remains dead, you can salvage it for munitions to repair your ketten for example.

Therefore when in lockdown mode Marder loses its mobility becoming a target. Plus it is the only T4 that gives major bonuses to tank hunting and gives bonuses to little anything else. Therefore I see no point in nerfing the primary anti tank tool of the PE when it comes in a tree that specializes only in tank destroying.

[Tymathee]

lol night rain and atgs are vulnerable to EVERYTHING. mortars, hmgs, infantry, tanks, artillery etc

oh and you can circle strafe atgs too, thats a moot argument.

Therefore I see no point in nerfing the primary anti tank tool of the PE when it comes in a tree that specializes only in tank destroying.

are u that dense? seriously? the whole TANK DESTROYERS doctrine is designed to hunt and kill tanks -_- its the best out of any doctrine at taking out tanks, just cuz u can't WTFBBQPWN tanks anymore doesn't make it weak, it just makes it so you actually have to work to get what, one more shot to kill that tank now? spare me...

You still have the penetration increase AND the crit increase. c'mon dude. dont be nug oh and then there's the heightened deflection modifier, i wish my atgs got that ^.^

so although u get higher penetration, even if u dont penetrate, u still do a good amount of dmg.

[NightRain]

lol night rain and atgs are vulnerable to EVERYTHING. mortars, hmgs, infantry, tanks, artillery etc

Are you saying that marder isn't vulnerable to everything mentioned in that? Anything penetrates it. BARs, rifles, HMGs, Mortars, Artillery especially likes to blow marders up.

The difference is that atg can be at least recrewed.

All atgs do get the 50% deflection modifier vs every armor on field.

Circlestrafing atgs also been mentioned by me. The difference still remains- you get the chance to recrew it whereas with marder you don't.

Not every Tier specializes entirely in tank hunting in the whole doctorine. Some of the tiers specializes light vehicles and one specializes repairs leaving only one fully developped to Anti tank.  The APCR. This makes Marders Worthy opponents and was actually quite worthwhile with them until the nerf when there was actually not much of a problem with them. It is just a higher DPS hitting marder which made Marder a Beast that actually made allies turn their vehicles and rely on anti tank guns the PEs main weakness.

The crit increase and penetration increases were quite nice addition as Marder does bounce too. Even if it did pounce it'd only be 90 damage per bouncing shell if APCR was involved and Marder was not in lockdown. If in Lockdown it is hefty 9 more damage making it total 99 damage per bounce. 19 more than 57mm.

[hans]

nightrain learn to use marders 

they are in the th doc for me a bit too powerful with those buffs in the doc tbh

[NightRain]

nightrain learn to use marders 

they are in the th doc for me a bit too powerful with those buffs in the doc tbh

I actually use them quite well and for some reason my usage got them nerfed too and I wonder why when the power they had was similar to the power of tank reaper anti tank guns.

[Tymathee]

nightrain. marders get an EXTRA 50% to their deflection modifier which is .35% and now makes it ,525 so that means that even a normal marder will get off 80 dmg even if it doesn't penetrate, add that to the high rof in lockdown and u can get the same amount of damage on a tank without penetration b4 an american atg can get a 2nd shot off.

19 more? l2domath?

150 x .5 = 75
99 - 75 = 24

btw, tank reapers only buff a few things. mines, zooks and atgs. apcr buffs all anti tank for PE...totally diff.

[NightRain]

I admit my mistake on the bounce damage thing

However- are you saying that all those you listed are not by any means anti tank? Just...minor stuff?

As far as I know I never used zooks versus infantry hehe

Jokes aside. It buffs everything that deals with anti tank. Even mines which are suggested more versus vehicles than versus infantry as infantry- won't get engine damage or immobilization from it.

However the reason: Why was the Marder nerfed when it gets higher damage but remains still as the same marder? Immobile 198 damage. Mobile 180 damage.

Mobile Marder 180
Tank Reaper ATG 180

Immobile Marder 198
AP ATG - which was the number? 25% more damage? Of course you'd pay for this, I mean you two shoot Stugs and 3 shoot P4s with that damage the ATG does with AP.

[Smokaz]

Nope. Non-vet Marder in Lockdown 4 shoots Shermans. Same as Tank Reaper Anti tank gun with AP rounds does to a P4.

Marder itself is fragile piece of a anti tank gun and can not be recrewed if destroyed unlike 57mm and 6pdrs.

yeah, you are totally going to fight with like 40 hp left! notice how i said: out. perhaps misleading? a freaking grenade can kill the sherman at that point.

Its fragile. I wonder how you come to that conclusion. Its NOT exceptionally fragile compared a 57mm, its just stronger against different targets.  What about the nerf to 37mm weapons vs the marder?

#1   fatcatswithhats007   Smokaz   3   183

No more buffs for marders please. I'm the king of marders even out-xp'ing stompathlete's #2-3.
I got no buffs for them on luft, and I think they are pretty boss.

Marders can CHASE. And they are cheap enough to make it worth it.

[pqumsieh]

Compare the fully buffed marder before the nerf with any other unit in EIRR. Let me know if any other unit in this game recieved as many buffs.

Off the top of my head inbelieve it was anywhere between 7-10 significant buffs being added to the marder which clearly made it OP. someone needs to provide the actual list...lockdown plus APRC Pre nerf.

Edit: correct these numbers if they are off:

Lockdown:

10.5 sight
-25% reload
+35% penetration
-35% recieved accuracy
+10% damage

APRC:
+35% penetration
+20% damage vs vehicles
Double critical on gun
0.35 deflection to 0.50 a 43% increase

My numbers on lockdown might be slightly outdated but overall what do you think? Still feel ur argument is ignorent of the overall facts stated above.

On a final note, if anything was a pointed out here its that lockdown migh be in need of an associated cost seeing its benifits are far superior to must purchased u

[RikiRude]

honestly i feel something like double crits on its own would be worthy of a T3

[Tymathee]

lulz, great point pq. marders are OP. ^_^

[DarkSoldierX]

1 Thing wrong PQ, APCR gives marder 15% more dmg instead of 20%.


Marder nerf is justified. TR cannot stack like a marder can.

Can you guess how much a vet 3 apcr locked down officer lower t3 MarderIII does to a pershing?

Il give you a hint, its more than twice as much as normal.

[Tymathee]

officers dont give bonuses to allies anymore.