If you could...

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[Mister Schmidt]

I met a homeschooled kid once.

Suffice to say he was the most sheltered and naive individual I've ever met, I just found it so bizarre how he knew literally next to nothing about even the most basic things in the outside world.

How to talk to a girl
How to order at a restaurant
What words like "lol" mean

I know it's probably a really extreme example, but I just think parents who do that to their kids set them up for a life of misery and embarrassment.

[Smokaz]

We have school boards for a reason, and on issues such as Sex Ed, it would probably be best to let the community do the heavy lifting in this area. Some young people are going to be sexually repressed no matter what the public school teaches them about it, or how much information they have access to.

You really think this is a good idea? It's a blanket pass for people who out of ignorance will hurt the part of the upcoming generation they are supposedly responsible for.

Now I dont know how school boards function in the US, but I'm guessing they are partly in charge of deciding currucilum? Really? You want localized hives of idiocy to be allowed to dominate with their garbage?

Down with religion, down with this supposed individual freedom which the mast majority of people abuse others with more than they help themselves.

And goddamn down with idiots being able to move to another state or position themselves locally in groups so they can avoid whats good for them. Individual freedom should not be helping out moronic behaviour.

[Sachaztan]

Here's some more on the insanity US citizens call "democracy".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUS9mM8Xbbw

[Heartmann]

Because your argument that this system "fostered not only a very pussy kinda ppl, but also a lot of corruption and under the table deals." is just plain absurd when taken into context of the rest of the world.

That may be true but considering that im getting my bachelors in social work, id say im more qualified on commenting on the Swedish welfare and prison system since that's what ill be working with until i get my PhD as a therapist.

Now I wonder in what kind of way your comment means that my view is absurd? I think that this system fosters a weak willed ppl, where to much is taken for granted. Now to avoid that the Swedish players in here get offended I'am generalizing, and there is ofc exceptions to every rule.

[Sachaztan]

That may be true but considering that im getting my bachelors in social work, id say im more qualified on commenting on the Swedish welfare and prison system since that's what ill be working with until i get my PhD as a therapist.

Now I wonder in what kind of way your comment means that my view is absurd? I think that this system fosters a weak willed ppl, where to much is taken for granted. Now to avoid that the Swedish players in here get offended I'am generalizing, and there is ofc exceptions to every rule.

argumentum ad verecundiam

Anyway, when you consider how fanastically little corruption there is in Sweden compared to the rest of the world then making the argument that the little corruption there is here is because of our social system, that is quite frankly rather batshit insane.

It's like saying that there are atheists in the USA because of their electoral college voting system.

[Groundfire]

You really think this is a good idea? It's a blanket pass for people who out of ignorance will hurt the part of the upcoming generation they are supposedly responsible for.

Now I dont know how school boards function in the US, but I'm guessing they are partly in charge of deciding currucilum? Really? You want localized hives of idiocy to be allowed to dominate with their garbage?

Down with religion, down with this supposed individual freedom which the mast majority of people abuse others with more than they help themselves.

And goddamn down with idiots being able to move to another state or position themselves locally in groups so they can avoid whats good for them. Individual freedom should not be helping out moronic behaviour.

Smokaz, I am just saying that I dont feel as if the state ramming it's own ideology into the classroom is a good idea period. I dont like the concept, it doesnt matter if it's right, wrong, true or false.

Your making the assumption that the state knows what's better for the children more so than their own parents.

Yes, there are enclaves of ignorance, but that phenomenon is in every corner of the world.

I would much rather have one family and one child be fucked by their right wing, radical gun loving, hate the muslim beliefs, than having someone from that particular group somehow find their way into a government position where they can impose their beliefs into policy and ruin it for the rest of us.

Dont think that can happen? Take a visit to Utah...

Maybe your way works in Norway (or sweden, i forget where you live) cause your country is small and self sufficient, but the US is too vast and varied to have one central view govern what is good for everyone. And that is fine. Different strokes for different folks. I would prefer these things to be more localized where you can deal with it more sensitively.

[BigDick]

Down with religion, down with this supposed individual freedom which the mast majority of people abuse others with more than they help themselves.

i choose smokaz for the adolf of the week - congratulations

[Heartmann]

argumentum ad verecundiam

Anyway, when you consider how fanastically little corruption there is in Sweden compared to the rest of the world then making the argument that the little corruption there is here is because of our social system, that is quite frankly rather batshit insane.

It's like saying that there are atheists in the USA because of their electoral college voting system.

Firstly I think your wrong, comparing the argument to the world the states is just dumb.

Sure there is more corruption elsewhere, but that don't mean that PROPORTIONALLY Sweden as a SMALL country, has a lot of corruption.

[Smokaz]

Smokaz, I am just saying that I dont feel as if the state ramming it's own ideology into the classroom is a good idea period. I dont like the concept, it doesnt matter if it's right, wrong, true or false.

Your making the assumption that the state knows what's better for the children more so than their own parents.

Yes, there are enclaves of ignorance, but that phenomenon is in every corner of the world.

I would much rather have one family and one child be fucked by their right wing, radical gun loving, hate the muslim beliefs, than having someone from that particular group somehow find their way into a government position where they can impose their beliefs into policy and ruin it for the rest of us.

Dont think that can happen? Take a visit to Utah...

Maybe your way works in Norway (or sweden, i forget where you live) cause your country is small and self sufficient, but the US is too vast and varied to have one central view govern what is good for everyone. And that is fine. Different strokes for different folks. I would prefer these things to be more localized where you can deal with it more sensitively.

This is about perception of what should be lawful or not for me. It's also about human rights. In large parts of the social-democratic world its perceived as a human right to be able to go to schools and educate yourself to "realize" your self as a human being. The reasoning behind legislation that allow others to prevent such self-realization is what I'm asking for.

Different strokes for different folks sounds more and more murky when its being used to defend legislation that can be perceived as hindering integration of a common set of human rights. Your country's militaristic tradition has also been a party to torture and illegal imprisonment and verdict without trial.

You have to nationalize prevention of breaking human rights, and I feel sex ed when having the content of contraception (family planning is a human right in several state-to-state contracts) and biology (general education) is a type of content which is a human right to be if not encouraged but not prevented from.

This below consideration argument about "america being big" I will not grace with much thought. Mentioning just how far the idea of justice extends outside US borders should be enough.

As far as nationalization goes in general, do you truly feel that nationalizing the banks by "saving them" was anything less than the only viable option?

I want to go the US this Christmas but I doubt I will afford it given my retarded amount of consummate expending the last two semester.. Utah would be low on my list of places to go though.

[Sachaztan]

Firstly I think your wrong, comparing the argument to the world the states is just dumb.

Sure there is more corruption elsewhere, but that don't mean that PROPORTIONALLY Sweden as a SMALL country, has a lot of corruption.

Wow, I'd really like to see where you get that from because it sounds as if you just pull that "fact" out of your ass.

Here are a few sources that says that you are just 100% completely wrong.

http://www.worldaudit.org/corruption.htm
http://www.svd.se/naringsliv/sverige-minst-korrupt-i-varlden_1768045.svd
http://www.dn.se/debatt/inget-tyder-pa-att-sverige-blivit-ett-mer-korrupt-land
http://www.regeringen.se/sb/d/4263

If I were to guess as to why you cling to the bizarre notion that Sweden "has a lot of corruption" it would be the current education that you are part of. My guess is that you are more exposed to the corruption that does exist in the system and thus become heavily biased. Sort of like how firefighters tend to be more aware of fires and firehazards.

[Sachaztan]

Different strokes for different folks.

If you define freedom by absence of laws and regulation, Anarchy is the only true Freedom. Do you consider Anarchy to be the way to go?

[Groundfire]

If you define freedom by absence of laws and regulation, Anarchy is the only true Freedom. Do you consider Anarchy to be the way to go?

Not at all, I think that government exists to safeguard individual freedom and rights. When it becomes bloated, it becomes ineffective.

There is a little truth behind everything. Only certain things need to be touched to make the scales balance; as such I would not advocate the complete absence of governance, so stop trying to put words in my mouth mkay?

Smokaz, i dont think you realize that in the United States, the government is at the roots of the social oppression which you are railing against with the preventative legislation.

The government is a tool and if we could just have this tool stop at "this is what is generally acceptable, if that conflicts with your personal beliefs, then you are allowed to leave" then this would be fine, however being the tool that it is, with popular support, it can facilitate regressive policies (of which I dont like)

Take for example, there are alot of public schools down in the southern United States which through using the legal process and government intervention allows for Creationism to be taught alongside evolution in a science class.

Strip the government from education and after a period of time, the public education system will transform something resembling the current US for-profit collegiate system, where socially defunct philosophies are capable of being weeded out and you get a generally less ideological education.

Im not saying that it's all that much better (I am a product of this system) but if I wanted a class on Creationism, it was my option to go take a class on it in my University, instead of having it government mandated that certain things be rammed down my throat.

[Smokaz]

Well the big difference is that creationism is not sensible at all   Any educated person can see why.

I guess we are stuck with the ultimate consequence here: you can't have a highly irrational, moronic and abusive government with a belief and value system that is completely backwards, without the vast majority of the population being exactly like that.

[Sachaztan]

Not at all, I think that government exists to safeguard individual freedom and rights. When it becomes bloated, it becomes ineffective.

There is a little truth behind everything. Only certain things need to be touched to make the scales balance; as such I would not advocate the complete absence of governance, so stop trying to put words in my mouth mkay?

Why are you answering to my post? Take a look at who I quoted...

*edit*


"Take for example, there are alot of public schools down in the southern United States which through using the legal process and government intervention allows for Creationism to be taught alongside evolution in a science class. "

Id like to see some source for that, because all I have heard about similar happenings is that the creationists lost in the courtroom when they tried to pull that one.

[Groundfire]

You quoted me Sach,

And it's freedom of speech, article 1 of the US constitution. It probably varies upon interpretation and such, but I used to live down in Florida, so apart from my own experiences where it was actually used on me, I definitely recall reading news stories/pending court cases about this.

Generally, Americans find this shit to be a big deal, so when it happens it's all over and for some people, it is pratcially their sole purpose in life to make this kind of thing happen.

Here's a quick google search article, not from any established media source, but the people that go out of their way to make public schools teach non-secular subjects.

http://www.icr.org/article/teachers-can-teach-creation-science-classroom/

Here's the supreme court case they refer to.
http://www.icr.org/article/teachers-can-teach-creation-science-classroom/

[Sachaztan]

You quoted me Sach,

And it's freedom of speech, article 1 of the US constitution. It probably varies upon interpretation and such, but I used to live down in Florida, so apart from my own experiences where it was actually used on me, I definitely recall reading news stories/pending court cases about this.

Generally, Americans find this shit to be a big deal, so when it happens it's all over.

My bad, my bad. Really clumsy of me, I thought I was responding to Tank. T-T

But really, if it is so big surely it must be easy to find a source saying that creationism is actually taught besides evolution in science in a single school. I have searched a bit on the net and I couldn't find a single case of creationism being taught in any public school. The closest I could find was public schools trying to discredit evolution and even with that they got stopped.

[Groundfire]

Which is also why I state "different strokes for different folks" and why you should not dismiss it so fast.

The United States is huge. Its regions are probably as multi-cultural as it gets. Some of our states are equivient in size and population as entire European countries. You would not want your neighboring country governing your country. That's occupation.

The states should be able to function autonomously and used to do so for the first 150 years of the country's existence. It's natural for people and smaller communities to want to govern themselves. This was largely because the United States was an experiment to see what the smallest government with the freest market possible would produce. (and now we have an empire)

It's moronic to think that an obese central government is capable of providing for the common good of all it's member branches. The EU is feeling this right now. (it's too big and beuracratic)

[Groundfire]

But really, if it is so big surely it must be easy to find a source saying that creationism is actually taught besides evolution in science in a single school. I have searched a bit on the net and I couldn't find a single case of creationism being taught in any public school. The closest I could find was public schools trying to discredit evolution and even with that they got stopped.

I guess quoting a supreme court decision doesnt cut it? When you do your google search, just add "+ Fox News" at the end. You'll find something.

[WildZontar]

I'd punch Heartmann for creating a thread that was bound to go off-topic.

[Sachaztan]

I guess quoting a supreme court decision doesnt cut it? When you do your google search, just add "+ Fox News" at the end. You'll find something.

Why don't you link it then? Because it doesnt exist?