What an EIR Automatcher should look like.

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[Jstek]

Nobody said you wouldn't be able to troll via arranged teams.  But you'll only be able to do that now with another arranged team while the masses play via auto-matcher.  Only thing is your arranged teams would be ad-hoc outside of the warmap.  Whats so wrong with that?  Why should you testing new strats or pwning your buddies affect the warmap?  It shouldn't.

[shockcoil]

1% of the community has 90% of the wins. Occupy the Warmap. WE ARE THE 99%.

[MorkaandBorka]

LOLOLOLLLL david come to U.S. now

[Jstek]

How would you propose to introduce 100-1000 new players into EIR and retain 90% of them?  Stomping them?

[Smokaz]

+100

[skaffa]

Make it so they can play vs CPU, easy med hard, so they can train in peace. Then they also dont have to wait 1 hour for a game and get stomped right away and leave forever, ever and ever ever ?

[Jstek]

Make it so they can play vs CPU, easy med hard, so they can train in peace. Then they also dont have to wait 1 hour for a game and get stomped right away and leave forever, ever and ever ever ?

It has already been discussed..  See here
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=20637.0

It has been determined to take a huge effort to implement any AI that would do anything right.  Much more effort than figuring out an equation with the data that is currently polled and stored in EIR's SQL databases and then simply apply that equation into a complex SQL query to spit out the a difficult index that would be sent into the launcher to determine how the match should be setup.

[PonySlaystation]

Make it so they can play vs CPU, easy med hard, so they can train in peace. Then they also dont have to wait 1 hour for a game and get stomped right away and leave forever, ever and ever ever ?

Well, yeah but there are downsides to this as well. It will be harder to get games because everyone will be playing compstomps. Look at Eastern Front or Blitzkrieg mod, it takes 1-2 hours to get a game because 90% the playerbase are compstompers.

I think it's better to just accept the fact that EIR is not for everyone. It's a hardcore mod that appeals to a hardcore crowd. Much like RO1, if you can't handle it then it's not for you. If you don't have the patience to learn then this mod is not for you. The main disadvantage that newer players face is that they have barely even played COH. So what they should do is just play COH to get the basic skills needed to compete in EIR.

[Mister Schmidt]

Agree with Pony for once.

[Malgoroth]

But you'll only be able to do that now with another arranged team while the masses play via auto-matcher.

Masses? lol

Broken record is broken. No offense, but an auto-match feature would be wasted when there's so few players. And with all the games that have come out/are coming out it'll just get worse. EiR will endure though since it's literally the only game I keep coming back to after I've played other games to death. I'm sure it's the same way for other players as well.

Honestly, when it comes to practicing EiR for noobs... the best thing to do at first is for noobs to 1v1 amongst themselves. One noob can set up a defense with certain units, and the other player tries to crack it with certain units. You can play around with strats and unit combinations that way. It'll introduce you to basic and eventually advanced tactics.

HOWEVER. The most important skill in this game is micro. And unfortunately, you can ONLY develop that skill by playing against other players in real matches. It took many many games being stomped to shit by other players to get my micro to a half passable level. Losing is simply something you HAVE to get used to.

[Demon767]

HOWEVER. The most important skill in this game is micro. And unfortunately, you can ONLY develop that skill by playing against other players in real matches. It took many many games being stomped to shit by other players to get my micro to a half passable level. Losing is simply something you HAVE to get used to.

+1

Mal, I'm sure you remember me when i first started playing EiRR.
I know Smokaz won't forget as he was the one that gave me a special nickname that basically spelled out how i played.

Simply, there is no more effective way to get more players in but just advertise and see how the community develops, you cant manipulate that in any over way. People will stay for a variety of reasons. I dont know why i stayed, when i was stomped 20/170 W/L games as PE when i first started.

As Mal pointed out, he will come back to EIRR to play a game or two, So will I, his reasons for coming back are different to mine i can assure you, but it happens, you cant manipulate it.

Why did i stay? i created and trained my own crew without me even realising, which became one of the best crews in early EiRR. I was just doing what i normally do behind the scenes, helping new people coming in... Yes people, ive taught and trained countless people who discovered this mod, i never needed to wave a flag around announcing to the community that i actually do something for the mod, including skinpacks, photoshopping for the furom and Groundfire, participating in shoutcasts, tourneys, making a map. Most of those in the end still leave, moreso in the later stages of this period in EiRR history, no matter how many wins i can put under there belt, just because they dont have the time to play as we do, they move on to better things.

Enter fantastic conclusion because i dont know how this post became like this.

[hans]

+1

Mal, I'm sure you remember me when i first started playing EiRR.
I know Smokaz won't forget as he was the one that gave me a special nickname that basically spelled out how i played.

Simply, there is no more effective way to get more players in but just advertise and see how the community develops, you cant manipulate that in any over way. People will stay for a variety of reasons. I dont know why i stayed, when i was stomped 20/170 W/L games as PE when i first started.

As Mal pointed out, he will come back to EIRR to play a game or two, So will I, his reasons for coming back are different to mine i can assure you, but it happens, you cant manipulate it.

Why did i stay? i created and trained my own crew without me even realising, which became one of the best crews in early EiRR. I was just doing what i normally do behind the scenes, helping new people coming in... Yes people, ive taught and trained countless people who discovered this mod, i never needed to wave a flag around announcing to the community that i actually do something for the mod, including skinpacks, photoshopping for the furom and Groundfire, participating in shoutcasts, tourneys, making a map. Most of those in the end still leave, moreso in the later stages of this period in EiRR history, no matter how many wins i can put under there belt, just because they dont have the time to play as we do, they move on to better things.

Enter fantastic conclusion because i dont know how this post became like this.

if so it really seems to fail as a gamemode.
Isnt it the role of a certain game/gamemod to have fun and fun in coh is mostly winning a game or having a close combat. New players arent able to have both in their first experiences. Getting stomped for 170 times sounds for new players bad. If they stay the first 20 to 50 stomps and then leave coz of a lack of fun, then this is the reality in most cases.

The first few sentences refer to not so good coh players. The best way to fill EIRR is catching all good coh players, coz they have the skill to create good games. They dont need 170 stomps to get better they already have certain micro skills. They need maybe 10 to 20 to get a feeling of how eirr is working. But it also matters that coh pro is playing the first time with good guys and not with noobs against stacks. So catch the coh pros and get profit for this mod. AND tbh who really wants noobs here?
 
only the hardcore coh junkies will survive and dominate the universe.

[Demon767]

we wouldnt be talking here if we had players, which we dont. we wouldnt be saying, OMFG war on stomps! if we had enough players in the community.

[hans]

we wouldnt be talking here if we had players, which we dont. we wouldnt be saying, OMFG war on stomps! if we had enough players in the community.

iam talking about that new players just leave too fast coz of the stomps O_O

[Malgoroth]

I don't believe this is a matter of "we need pros" vs "we need more people - period". Coh itself is intimidating for noobs when it comes to matches regardless of mod. This isn't Starcraft. There are no set build orders in EiR. There's build orders in Coh, but in the Coh environment - combat outcomes are determined through probability as opposed to the Starcraft environment of 'Unit x does y damage over z period of time'. There's multiple variables to consider when approaching any engagement in this game. This means that the game itself is much harder to master compared to other strategy games and the bulk of the learning curve is in trial and error as opposed to learning the intricacies of fast clicking like a mad man. It's a different kind of micro. A different kind of strategy in general. One that, unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your mindset) takes a lot more time and effort in which to become proficient.    

The noobs who enjoy that type of game will stick around regardless of how many times their company gets sodomized (like me). The noobs who don't will move on to other games that fit their particular tastes. I'm afraid it's really as simple as that.

[Jstek]

<sarcasm>

So in essence, the game doesn't need to grow only needs to cater to the pros who want to stomp all the lesser players.
Which if that is the way it suppose to be then why even put effort into the warmap and into any promotional stuff??  It would be a waste of time and effort because your only catering to the HARDCORE EIR players.  Which means all the forum trolls that don't even play hardly any matches anymore.

So yes!!  +1 for EIR development!

</sarcasm>


Its funny how all only the Elite want nothing to do with anything that would help balance matches.
Just a note BTW, EIR only caters to Hardcore EIR players!!!!!?!?!?!?  We'll you can't get hardcore players by punching the new player in the face and kicking them out the door.

The warmap is i am sure suppose to be a macro game mechanic, which means it needs players.  So why bother with the warmap if you plan on alienating all new players from the game and only cater to the 20 elite players in the game.  Seems like a total waste of time sorry (EIRMOD) but if that's your vision your failing game design 101.

[Demon767]

How did you come to that drastic conclusion Jstek lol 

[Jstek]

I think it's better to just accept the fact that EIR is not for everyone. It's a hardcore mod that appeals to a hardcore crowd.

I don't believe this is a matter of "we need pros" vs "we need more people - period".

I dont know why i stayed, when i was stomped 20/170 W/L games as PE when i first started.

The noobs who enjoy that type of game will stick around regardless of how many times their company gets sodomized (like me).

It's funny after posting all these quotes on why an automatcher/balancer is BAD.. On how pathetic these quotes are in opposition...

[Demon767]

we wouldnt be talking here if we had players, which we dont. we wouldnt be saying, OMFG war on stomps! if we had enough players in the community.

that is the answer to your question Jstek.

And i wasnt stomped, i was just a bad player back then.

[Jstek]

that is the answer to your question Jstek.

And i wasnt stomped, i was just a bad player back then.

Sure name 20 new that are not PRO players as smurfs that play consistently.  If your so confident you should have no problem coming up with a list.  On that thought.. why are there smurfs anyways if there are sooo many players to do games?

Plus, how do you can you say this while everyone else is saying we can't do a balancer because we don't HAVE enough players to play matches?!?   it's like you cant decide which is true or not depending on how you want to color the answer.


I think it comes to this..  The elite want to keep having easy wins and stomp the shit out of all new players, new blood to get that stratification feeling on how bad ass they are and they don't give a shit that it will ultimately destroy the game.  But why would they give a shit cause they got what they wanted from it.  However, the real folks that get screwed are the guys putting in the time into developing the game directly but are getting pushed sideways from the Elite/pros posting on how good they are and that if anyone dares play the game from the start who is not as LEET as they are should get their skull crushed in.  Sounds like a game everyone would love to play doesn't it eh?  Lets add this to the EIRR official PR announcement when the WARMAP is release.  Lets see how that goes over.