[CB] BAR and G43 SF

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[Smokaz]

SHOOP DE WOOP PAPRAPPA THE RAPPA DING DONG SCHMUUUTT VERMUTT HELMUTTT

Cover can be flanked? COVER CAN BE FLANKED?

But are you sure - my dear nug nug - that "flanking" cover affects supression?

HUH? HUH?

L2COH, I am master.

[BigDick]

green cover is flankable that also includes suppression
yellow cover don't prevent you being suppressed by bar SF and even green cover doesnt as long as one guy is out of cover the whole squad gets suppressed/pinned mr. l2coh master

[Smokaz]

How do you KNOW it includes supression?

[PonySlaystation]

Please ban nugnug. He doesn't insult everyone who disagrees with him anymore but his balance ideas are still terrible.

If he's allowed to create new profiles and take part in balance discussions then why is there even a ban? as a warning?

[Heartmann]

tbh, bars are ok, g43 change it back tbh

[Poppi]

+10

There is no justifiable balance reason to nerf suppression fire as an ability (cost increase maybe).

I find it in kind of poor taste to balance an existing ability around an individuals conception of how it "should be used" and under what circumstances it should be used are acceptable.

People dont like it when BAR squads run up and suppress them, me, I dont like it when KCH shrug off the machine guns that I do bring.

Know your counters.

Ya kind of agree with you there.  If anything couldnt KCH be a "i win" button that is constantly on? How do i counter KCH? Send in more rifleman? Nope. Counters.

SF is a short duration ability with a long recharge.
US Infantry are weak and can be killed off by infantry even with 3 bar upgrade.
Its not instant gib.
Pinning after several seconds isnt a "i win"
SF or bars dont do shit damage against many many units. Use those.

If you lose or change this ability i hope many many more changes will follow.

Im probably just saying again exactly what i said before sorry. SF is fine as is.
Can we work on AB?

[Mister Schmidt]

As long as we doesn't include you

[gungun]

Please ban nugnug. He doesn't insult everyone who disagrees with him anymore but his balance ideas are still terrible.

I love Pony how ignorant you are to the fact that what i suggested is also what was suggested in 1st reply in this thread.

People dont like it when BAR squads run up and suppress them, me, I dont like it when KCH shrug off the machine guns that I do bring.

Ground, I for one don't have prob with BAR suppressing. The only prob is that you can suppress with 1 bar  3 grens or 3 pzgrens and pin 2 of them, that is way over the top to the cost-efficiency ratio.

[BigDick]

How do you KNOW it includes supression?

BECAUSE IM THE SMARTEST GUY ARROUND obviously  

green cover is directional thats hardcoded and should be known by coh vets
that means it only apply if its between the attacker and the attacked squad
and there is nothing in weapon table rgds switching covertype for specific sub attributes of a weapon
furthermore damage/accuracy/suppression are actually set up in the same table of the covertype means that either all of them apply or none of them

if you don't belive that test it in a 1v1 putting some volks behind a wall and sneaking with bar rifles arround while hitting SF

Please ban nugnug. He doesn't insult everyone who disagrees with him anymore but his balance ideas are still terrible.

If he's allowed to create new profiles and take part in balance discussions then why is there even a ban? as a warning?

There may be some stuff where its hard to agree with nugnugx but at least he fails not always and actually i can't remember when i read some really valid and important points of YOU in terms of balance tbh

maybe someone should lift his balance ban if he tries to not spam balance topics

[PonySlaystation]

And there are the insults and the nonsense, I knew something was missing.

I can't really see how your argument is better just because BigDick also wrote a fail biased argument.

[LeoPhone]

+10

There is no justifiable balance reason to nerf suppression fire as an ability (cost increase maybe).

I find it in kind of poor taste to balance an existing ability around an individuals conception of how it "should be used" and under what circumstances it should be used are acceptable.

People dont like it when BAR squads run up and suppress them, me, I dont like it when KCH shrug off the machine guns that I do bring.

Know your counters.

good job comparing the most basic cheap infantry squad to the most elite expensive infantry squad. at least there are still other counters to KCH or you can take the losses to kill them because they are so expensive. but BAR riflemen just keep coming...

[tank130]

No Need to report anyone Dark..... it has already been noted 

[MorkaandBorka]

Both these things seem fine as is. 

Sf has been this way for a while.  I cant remember the last time i was like OMG BARS ARE OP OMG OMG OMG....just get in some cover?   SF is needed on rifles to make them viable, there shouldnt be any extra charges for sf orrrr nerfs to it either. 

You can always assume people will use sf on your shit so just back up for a little bit, hop in some cover, seperate your troops so that only one gets pinned, jump in a house or just stay far enough back that it wont effect you too much. 

Please dont change SF either way.

[AmPM]

Let me sum this up.

Plz nerf stuff so that I don't have to L2P.

[MorkaandBorka]

Let me sum this up.

Plz nerf stuff so that I don't have to L2P.

I love it

[Poppi]

As long as we doesn't include you

dont worry it wont. Ill let you do all the work, ill just play and gripe about all that hard work you did was complete crap yet again. And stop acting like a crazy bitchy ex girl friend by being a dick all the time. thanks

[Killer344]

What you forget as always is that, bar has a whooping 18 close dps while g43 8.  Bar also has 7 medium dps while g43  4 or 3.
2 bars do more dps then 3 g43.


Now on-topic.


Bars are unbalanced for todays gameplay.
Their working mechanic and price dates back to some time without a tweak while other upgrades were changed.

Let's see basic DPS on short range and prices of comparable upgrades:

Bars - 18 dps (x2 = 36 dps total) + suppression fire -  80 mu

lmg - 20 dps -  70 mu

bren lmg - 12 dps (x2 = 24) + button - 90 mu


Combination of high close dps + suppression fire allows bars to kill infatry squads 2 to 1. Meaning 1 bar squad can kill 2 axis squads. No other infantry squad is capable of such a feat.

No other single upgrade in EIR allows this. We have mp40's mp44's and lmgs which deal high damage but minimal suppression allowing allies to fight back killing the attacking squad.  While axis get suppressed and pinned from bars, they do not fire back and are unable to hurt the attacking bar squads.

Bar should be either damage or suppression , not both in one because this makes it an force that cannot be stopped by other infantry, as no other upgrade in the game gives such an ability to do both.
My biggest gripe with bar SF is that, that you can pin multiple axis squads with on 1 SF simply by clicking on different unit, it doesn't matter if they are spread out and attacking all from different sides, SF just works this way and you are able to do such a thing.



Proposing of fix:

Make SF target only 1 unit, like the old g43 'slow'. You get a different crosshair, click on 1 unit, and they open fire with SF  suppressing and eventualy pinning 1 squad and after that SF is no longer for using. I think it's fair enough that 1 SF on 1 unit = 1 suppresed/pinned squad.



G43:

G43 current pinning is a mirror of SF which is worse stat wise. The best was old 'slow' imo, it was different, it was fun, it worked in tandem with incendiary grenades, it was balanced because it worked only on 1 unit unlike bars - it was much better than what currently g43 has. Current SF on g43 is a slap in the face for g43 imo and old 'slow' should be brought back.

Bye profile "nugnug".

[Tymathee]

oops...lmao

[Valexandes]

SF on riflemen is their only saving grace. Assault could easily tear multiple squads apart before the squad it is on dies unless the riflemen can suppress them.

LMGs on grens do rapetastic dps and can easily kill full squads for minimal losses if the squads run at the immobile LMGS.

MG42s can suppress anything near the unit they shoot at resulting in randomly pinned inf behind a tank and other nonsense. They also have long range and high dps.

mp40s can do rape you in the face dps at close range. Only effective way to kill them is to get them suppress then fire on them.

US only has minimal suppression on their .30 cals and the range makes them a weak suppressor against the axis who typically have better range and thus can't be suppressed easily by a stationary weapon they can outrange. The only other notably suppressing unit US has is the .50 cal on a sherman which isn't particularly higher than the mg on the tank destroyer stug.

In order for US to have any suppression they can actually bring to bear on a axis unit riflemen need SF. The dps hit while using SF is significant and the fact that bars do not automatically suppress two units that are nearly on top of each other is already a huge bonus for Axis. You either have a pinned squad taking damage and a regular squad to deal damage or you have two pinned squads who took minimal damage.

By the time a bar squad pins multiple units and starts to put any hurt on them the axis player should have been able to bring any of a host of support weapons over to deal with it.

Considering the ability of axis to suppress allies I feel that SF (as the only mainline suppression for US) is fine as is.

[Demon767]

I find that allies need SF