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Author Topic: Weapon cache update x2  (Read 60176 times)
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Hicks58 Offline
Development
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Posts: 5343



« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2011, 01:52:20 pm »

I think we understand the problem and the fact your not happy Smokaz. Point established.

Now, roll on with the numbers, suggestions, and fixes. Productivity ftw fella.
Logged

I mean I know Obama was the first one in EiR to get a card. and tbfh the Race card is pretty OP. but Romney has the K.K.K., those guys seem to camo anywhere. So OP units from both sides.
At the end of the day, however, stormtroopers finally got the anal invasion with a cactus they have richly deserved for years.
Smokaz Offline
Honoured Member
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Posts: 11418



« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2011, 01:53:53 pm »

Rofl hicks you can suck my nuts because I pointed out really early on that I could fix it, and look every single suggestion or thing I've pointed out so far, all goes into the groundfire machine because he never did anything sensible on it to begin with and because of that he should have not turned the damn thing on
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SlippedHerTheBigOne: big penis puma
SlippedHerTheBigOne: and i have no repairkits
SlippedHerTheBigOne: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Groundfire Offline
EIRR community manager
EIR Veteran
Posts: 8511



« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2011, 01:58:02 pm »

Haha, you act as if this thing is a switch, but the thing is, once it was coded to go, it was "on" to begin with.

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Hicks58 Offline
Development
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Posts: 5343



« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2011, 01:58:13 pm »

Fantastic, Groundfire screwed up.

If you truly want to be helpful, take every unit, every unit's upgrade, compile a list of what they currently are, adjust them to what they SHOULD be, then either post it or pass it along.

Being mad gets nothing done. Unless your drunk, then it makes you hit people and that's technically doing something, but I digress.
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Valexandes Offline
Donator
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Posts: 280


« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2011, 02:07:34 pm »

This is absurd. The weapons cache is a good idea with a good framework.
The framework turned out to be a little off due to the reserves effectively expanding the cache. That is now fixed.
There are a lot of small issues with weapons costs and whether they are balanced or not. Mention the ones that you think are a problem or are missing a cost. This way groundfire who has to actually do the work can get it done faster rather than having to also go through and notice every stupid little thing that he might not commonly come across.
Somebody who does come across it can point it out instead and then groundfire can fix it. Weapons cache may be a bit buggy but it is being worked on quickly and updated. Help that process along or just make do with it. After all, the work going into this is voluntary in the first place.
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the nashorn is like a kid with a giant penis, it has no idea how to use it or where to point it most of the time but it could still fuck you

Your mom, and your grandma wont know....
Groundfire Offline
EIRR community manager
EIR Veteran
Posts: 8511



« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2011, 02:15:36 pm »

This is absurd. The weapons cache is a good idea with a good framework.
The framework turned out to be a little off due to the reserves effectively expanding the cache. That is now fixed.
There are a lot of small issues with weapons costs and whether they are balanced or not. Mention the ones that you think are a problem or are missing a cost. This way groundfire who has to actually do the work can get it done faster rather than having to also go through and notice every stupid little thing that he might not commonly come across.
Somebody who does come across it can point it out instead and then groundfire can fix it. Weapons cache may be a bit buggy but it is being worked on quickly and updated. Help that process along or just make do with it. After all, the work going into this is voluntary in the first place.

+10 well said
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AmPM Offline
Community Mapper
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Posts: 7978



« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2011, 03:00:07 pm »

Terrible implementation is terrible implementation.

You don't get rewarded for intentions.

1) If there are so many entries for weapons and upgrades in EIRR it should be consolidated, there is no reason to have 4 LMG42 entries that are all the same.

2) You should start off with things that need to be limited, and work from there. I hardly think anyone was complaining about tank top MG spam...

3) There are only a couple hundred weapons and upgrades, there is no reason this should have taken 3 days and churned out a useless crap system.

So to summarize, get your shit organized, get everyone on the same page with RGD coding so there are not 14 different entries for 1 weapon, and assign values based on the relative power of each upgrade. Infantry upgrades like grenades and medkits shouldn't cost more than 1, if anything; LMG/BAR are 2, Assault stuff 3, AT 3, etc.

You failed, redo the system so it works, and redo the core so it works. Look at the units and how they fit into their individual forces and price the upgrades from there (nerfing the BAR by making it 4-5 pool when it's the primary Allied suppression tool would be bad for instance).
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smurfORnot Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4715



« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2011, 03:18:19 pm »

volks with faust and ass nades - 6 pool,lol,who wouldnt want to have 10 of them and nothing else in army,lol
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AmPM Offline
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Posts: 7978



« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2011, 03:23:12 pm »

volks with faust and ass nades - 6 pool,lol,who wouldnt want to have 10 of them and nothing else in army,lol

10 is total spam! You could win a game with only those volks!
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smurfORnot Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4715



« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2011, 04:13:56 pm »

yea,I know,half is probably enough to kill most of enemy army,and when he sends those crocs at you,you will just faust him!
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DarkSoldierX Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3015



« Reply #50 on: December 15, 2011, 04:17:31 pm »

Isn't that the purpose of weapons cache? Lol.

So you don't spam assault and faust volks?
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two words
atgs and fireflies
Looks who's butthurt
*waiting* 4 DarkSoldierNoobiX pops up to prove how much shit the T17 is penetrating KTs back and Jagd front and how much better the ac/puma is penetrating m10 rear  Cool Cool Cool
Spartan_Marine88 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4838



« Reply #51 on: December 15, 2011, 04:21:07 pm »


4-man KCH (The squad itself)


KCH already cost 3 cache
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Yes that's me, the special snowflake.
Smokaz Offline
Honoured Member
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Posts: 11418



« Reply #52 on: December 15, 2011, 04:35:44 pm »

@Val, Hicks

Yeah, and in return Groundfire stop bullshitting and pretending he didnt throw a dice for every value?  Show the non-existant "paper trail" and admit to outright lying like saying he spent 3 days on assigning the original cache numbers? Keep dreaming?

No "lets" (like groundfire is we, I am you) just do this for our talent.  I hope the fact that theres a lot of stuff in one place wont tire you out completely instead of feeding you them one and one like a trainer feeds a dolphin tuna fish.

Boy, it would be nice to just have the spread sheet..  Roll Eyes

"WE NEED THE COMMUNITY 2 HELP US BUT U CANT HAVE SHEET"

60 TOTAL POOL WEAPONS CACHE PRICES FOR ALL FACTIONS

Americans

- American officer 0 -> 1
- Rifle Bars 3 -> 4
- Rifle Sticky 1 -> 3
- Engineer mines 1 -> 2
- Engineer Triage -> 2

- Airborne LMG 0 -> 2
- Airborne vehicle mine 0 -> 1
- Airborne riflemen bars 3 -> 4

- Ranger Bazookas 2->3
- Ranger Thompsons 3->4
 
- Assault engineers 2 -> 3


- Sherman upgun 0 -> 1
- Sherman 50 cals 0 -> 1
- Hellcat 50 cal -> 1
- Jeep repair* 1 -> 0
- M3HT repair* 1 -> 0
- Pershing repair kit ? -> 4

- 57mm AP rounds 0 -> 1

- Howitzer 1 -> 2
- Calliope base cache 0 -> 2

Wehrmacht
- Pioneer goliath 3 -> 4
- Pioneer mg42 bunker 0 -> 1
- Grenadier Single lmg 3 -> 2
- Grenadier Double lmg 4 -> 3
- Wehr officer 0 -> 2
- Four man kch base cache 3 -> 4
- Stormtrooper four mp44s 3 -> 4
- Stormtrooper double shreks 4 -> 5
- Assault nades all 4 -> 5

- Wehr pak40 base cache ? -> 3

- Wehr Panzer IV, Panther MG 0 -> 1
- Wehr STUG, STUH MG 0 -> 2
- Panzer IV, Stug, Stug, Panther armored SKIRTS 0 -> 2
- Tiger repair kit ? -> 4

- Geschutzwagen mg 0 -> 1
- Geschutzwagen rapid fire rounds 0 -> 1

- Nebelwerfer base cache 2 -> 1
- Stuka base cache 0 -> 1

BRITISH
- Tommy CCS 0 -> 1
- Tommy recon squad 0 -> 1
- Sapper piats 2 -> 3
- Sapper mines 1 -> 2
- Commando grenade 0 -> 1
- Commando officer 0 -> 1
- Commando demos 2 -> 3
- LT base cache cost -> 1
- Captain no cache cost -> 1

- Stuart Canister shot 0 -> 1
- Stuart top commander 0 -> 1
- Staghound mg 0 -> 2
- Cromwell Flank speed 3 -> 1
- Firefly top commander 0 -> 1


Churchill Croc repair kit 3 -> 4
Regular churchill repair kit ? -> 2
CCT upgrades (including repair) All -> 1

PANZER ELITE
Panzer Pioneers base  cache 0 -> 1
Panzer Pioneers demos 1 -> 3
Assault Grenadiers 2 -> 3
Panzergrenadiers magnetic at nades: 1 -> 3
Incendary assauklt ? -> 3

Scout car mg42 upgrade 0 -> 2
Munitions HT goliath 3 -> 4
Munitions HT mines 1 -> 2
Mortar ht base cache 0 -> 1
Mortar ht incendary round 0 -> 1
Light ATHT treadbreaker 0 -> 1
Light ATHT base cache 0 -> 1

IST skirts 0 -> 2
IST mg 0 -> 1
PE panther mg 0 -> 1
Pe panther skirts 0 -> 2
hotchkiss stuka base cache 0 -> 1
50 mm HT 1 -> 2
Hummel base cache 0->2

Jagdpanther repair 4 -> 5

Hetzer mg 0  ->  1
Hetzer spotting scope 0 -> 2
Pak 36 treadbreaker 0-> 1
Pak 36 base cache 1 -> 2
Stummel repair 1 -> 2

FSJ fg42 3 -> 4
Luftwaffe g43s ? -> 2

Jagdpanzer commander 0 -> 1
Jagdpanzer L/70 0 -> 1




COMMENT

Standarization, intercompared.
Artillery standardized. Tank upgrades standardized. Mortars and mgs standardized. Grenades standardized. Infantry AT VD upgrades standardized. AT guns standardized. AI upgrades for inf given good relationship. Tank main gun upgrades standardized. Emplacements standardized.

Bars cannot be the same cache price as a single LMG. Thus: Bars have to be four, because double lmgs should not be the same as bars either. Engineer mines cannot be 1, because pioneer mines are 1 and they get only a single.

Ranger zooks cant be 2 like they are now, with single rifle zooks being 2. Superior platform, weapon retaining etc. Ranger SMGs should not be 3 just because they are unpopular at the moment.

Troll explosives like goliaths, ami, pe and brit demos have a fine relationship between each other.

Sticky cant be 1 with faust being 2. Sticky is the stronger option.

American and axis mg tank difference panther/p4 does not necessitate a different cache cost, too small. However stuh/stug mg is good enough and justifies 1 point difference.

*All vehicles below 40 fuel should not have a cache cost associated with their repairs. All faction's vehicles below 40 fuel are pretty frail and prone to dying every game.

All second repairs should have a higher cache cost than the 1st with the exception of 0 cache vehicles below 40.

Stuart pays the same for its tank commander is balanced by canister being low as well, thus retaining the internal balance vs other tank commander type upgrades having a cost.

Fallschirmjager fg42s impossible to balance with cache cost. Not worth 4 cache without buffs, worth 4 with. Doctrine t3 currently buffing g43s not existing for g43s. Assuming that since so many different stuff is buffing , will be worth 4 most of the time.

Will do reward units as well upon delivery of reward points. Around 100 will suffice to make sure I can buy them all.
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Smokaz Offline
Honoured Member
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Posts: 11418



« Reply #53 on: December 15, 2011, 04:45:25 pm »

The genius here, if I might be so shrewd, is the relationships are actually GOOD and STANDARDIZED and you can multiply by 2 across the board and screw around with total cache without ending up looking like a total hand puppet.

took me 2h30mins. i guess martian days or something
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Valexandes Offline
Donator
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Posts: 280


« Reply #54 on: December 15, 2011, 04:46:22 pm »

You have to be joking with bars being 4.
The primary way for americans to suppress anything being 4 cache. Good strategy.
Double LMGs being 3? swap those two numbers and things start to look better.
MG42 bunker only 1? why not two?

Giant cache cost on two of rifles three upgrades and no costs on volks upgrades?
No cost for Fausts?
No costs for gren schreks?
If a sticky is 3 then a schrek would have to be 4 as it is clearly better.
Sticky being 2 and schrek 3 is what I would say.
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Groundfire Offline
EIRR community manager
EIR Veteran
Posts: 8511



« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2011, 04:47:19 pm »

Flankspeed had cache? wooo  Roll Eyes

Probably its cause it was so close to the FOO entry.

Just stop it smokaz, you dont know what you are doing.

I too had a list written down, it took 20 minutes, but took me a couple of sessions over 3 days to get them all in. (not 72 hours mind you)
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Tymathee Offline
Donator
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Posts: 9741



« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2011, 04:47:37 pm »

nice smokaz but i think you would've served the community a lot better if you'd done something like that in the first place rather than berating them.
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"I want proof!"
"I have proof!"
"Whatever, I'm still right"

Dafuq man, don't ask for proof if you'll refuse it if it's not in your favor, logic fallacy for the bloody win.
Unkn0wn Offline
No longer retired
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Posts: 18379


« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2011, 04:48:28 pm »

I commend your effort smokaz, and I think you're on to something but you need to stop with the petty insults while you're at it. Number changes can be made quickly, so let's all take a deep breath and allow this to be optimised further.
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Smokaz Offline
Honoured Member
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Posts: 11418



« Reply #58 on: December 15, 2011, 04:50:34 pm »

You have to be joking with bars being 4.
The primary way for americans to suppress anything being 4 cache. Good strategy.
Double LMGs being 3? swap those two numbers and things start to look better.
MG42 bunker only 1? why not two?

Giant cache cost on two of rifles three upgrades and no costs on volks upgrades?
No cost for Fausts?
No costs for gren schreks?
If a sticky is 3 then a schrek would have to be 4 as it is clearly better.
Sticky being 2 and schrek 3 is what I would say.

Upgrades not mentioned already have correct cache prices. It lists changes based on what was in launcher 5 mins ago.
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Audemed Offline
Donator
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Posts: 644



« Reply #59 on: December 15, 2011, 04:54:05 pm »

Uh, smokaz....with those values, there's be no way to spend all your munitions, aside from snipers.
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