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[Demon767]

Could you imagine getting hit with a bag of dicks? Honestly I loved the mod from 3 years ago because it was actually super fun to play. I love having super buffed units and doctrine unlocks that made a huge difference!

+1

[tank130]

You're pretty much saying there is no need for a unit availability system? Quite a lot of nonsense. Barring a period of perhaps +- 6 months EIR has always had some sort of unit availability in place, following the sound logic that a unit is priced solely based on its performance by itself and players should not be expected to build specific companies with the sole purpose of countering a certain gimmick strategy. A simple example is the sniper, you can not control a unit like the sniper with just pricing and pop alone, you're either going to end up pricing him too restrictively or you'll end up pricing him far too liberal (resulting in people building companies around the unit, like puddin used to)

Maybe you're just arguing semantics really. Groups of specific units being 'too powerful' is not per se unit imbalance, but it's still something we have to address from both a design and balance point of view. (It's balance on a more meta level as you will)

This is also seen in vCOH. Flamethrowers on individual sappers weren't OP, but when someone decided to build an entire strategy around them, it was unstoppable. Relic didn't address this by nerfing sappers or flamethrowers, instead they aimed at stopping only the specific strategy, this was done by giving flamethrower sappers a negative zeal effect. A genious fix, where as following your logic they should have just made flamethrowers more expensive.

Isn't there also a mechanic on vCoH that makes pios less effective the more you have on the field.....?

[shockcoil]

Nah man tank u jusy so high u r imagingn things

[AmPM]

Sniper spam currently is not efficient unless your team can support you. Same goes for most spam.

If you lose to that you got outplayed by a TEAM, how is this an issue?

3 snipers on field? Bring out armor and rofl roll them. Their teammates can only have so much AT, have your while team switch to armored units with capping HT infantry.

All spam is counterable if you work with your team and plan, which is what this game should be all about.

[Heartmann]

Sniper spam currently is not efficient unless your team can support you. Same goes for most spam.

If you lose to that you got outplayed by a TEAM, how is this an issue?

3 snipers on field? Bring out armor and rofl roll them. Their teammates can only have so much AT, have your while team switch to armored units with capping HT infantry.

All spam is counterable if you work with your team and plan, which is what this game should be all about.

ok so i have to agree with AM on this one.

BUT

The problem is that there a lot of ppl dont see the team aspect and just play there own thing expecting team sync without putting any effort into making it happen.

I know I do that sometimes. Spec when pplz ask me if/when/where they you do things, I just go take a look at the battle and realize those things for yourself. But at times I have time and energy to coach, but as I said its that extra effort.

[Ahnungsloser]

ok so i have to agree with AM on this one.

BUT

The problem is that there a lot of ppl dont see the team aspect and just play there own thing expecting team sync without putting any effort into making it happen.

I know I do that sometimes. Spec when pplz ask me if/when/where they you do things, I just go take a look at the battle and realize those things for yourself. But at times I have time and energy to coach, but as I said its that extra effort.

The most guys have no ventrillo and i would say that i lose the most games due to a perfect non-existent team organisation. With ventrillo i had
some games where we played a higher-skilled enemy.

[Unkn0wn]

I meant pios btw, I was sleepy.

Also, 'outplayed by a team' is hardly an argument, since to beat it you would still have to have had a company tailored to it. I very much doubt your everyday balanced company stands a chance beating some gimmick. (You'd neeed mass jeeps or mass armour supported by at least some jeeps or infantry for detection, etc) We could do this all day but it's clear that you're lacking a certain insight in fundamental game mechanics, i.e the ability to already win in EIR on company creation. (Which is something we want to lessen as much as possible, exactly through systems like availability)

[Dnicee]

meh, 4 p4s and 1 panther should be possible. that limit makes no sense. I can have 21 riflemen with stickies but i cant have 4 p4s and a panther??

- Mod edit: no unrelated pics

[hans]

ventrillo is good but well if u are experienced and have teammates u can trust on (and they also know what they are doing), u dont need vent to have good teamwork

[AmPM]

I meant pios btw, I was sleepy.

Also, 'outplayed by a team' is hardly an argument, since to beat it you would still have to have had a company tailored to it. I very much doubt your everyday balanced company stands a chance beating some gimmick. (You'd neeed mass jeeps or mass armour supported by at least some jeeps or infantry for detection, etc) We could do this all day but it's clear that you're lacking a certain insight in fundamental game mechanics, i.e the ability to already win in EIR on company creation. (Which is something we want to lessen as much as possible, exactly through systems like availability)

You already have a system for limiting companies, its called resources.

If you priced units properly, instead of trying to keep to values that are divisible by 10 for everything it would get the desired effect of balance without making everyone play the same company.

If someone plays heavy on snipers or armor, they are obviously short on something else. You don't even need a jeep to hunt a sniper, and they cost little to nothing anyway.

I think one of my balanced company builds has like 8 motorcycles for just this reason. Because I have a lot of support for my infantry and it's expensive infantry I thought "hmmm, maybe I should be able to counter snipers". I know it's overly complicated and god forbid players have to sacrifice anything to counter everything.

[Dnicee]

meh, 4 p4s and 1 panther should be possible. that limit makes no sense. I can have 21 riflemen with stickies but i cant have 4 p4s and a panther??

- Mod edit: no unrelated pics

how is a "what the fuck picture" unrelated?

[Heartmann]

Again i find my self agreeing with am... LOL But even if a player has 1 sniper that 540 mp and 200 mu, which is almost 5 jeeps, added the 50 fu, which in retrospect is not a big sacrifice, OR u just get your own sniper and counter his.

ANYWAY.

4 pivs and 1 panther is a fair amount of armor, and you are not supposed to be a 1 man army in this mod, you are rather a commander of a group of units whit which you are supposed to cooperate with other commanders to take out the enemy!

That is part of what makes this mod special, its not and endless and endless stream of fucking tigers, even thou there where only around 1.100 ever made or whatever, it smaller tactical battles and bouts that (when warmap is complete) will add up to a full scale war! ^^

[smurfORnot]

Heartmann,my Elephant has more XP than yours  
eat my dust...brum brum brum!

[Hicks58]

I do wonder how the mod would roll if it took more true to life numbers and had accurate proportions for armour fielded.

So that's what, an expected 20 Shermans in field for every Tiger that shown it's face?

Then again, we'd need to have accurate infantry too and suddenly the CoH maps just don't seem quite big enough. >.<

Tbf, I wouldn't mind seeing company size and pools increase by 50%, but with the limitations on heavies/specials still in place. Standard companies would have 12000 MP, 3000 MU, 1800 FU. Increase advantages proportionally as well, so 400 MP per goes to 600 MP per, 150 MU to 225 MU and 100 FU to 150 FU.

Heh, a 2250 FU coy... 9 Sherman/PIV companies anybody?

[shockcoil]

I've always said we need to revert to 10k manpower. Games are just more fun with more units and choices. I remember saint and his bullshit 300RB company with 9 OBM shermans.

[smurfORnot]

more resources=more units=longer games!
games are long enough as they are 30-50min

[Hicks58]

Ever thought that they are the length they are due to people's conservative nature? Losing a tank is a huge blow to your company, as is losing an ATG (Weapon destruction, not decrew). Same for Snipers, Storms, etc. People have to employ care or risk having their company's balls chopped off in one fell swoop.

[smurfORnot]

and you think that having more resources people would stop to be conservative with their units?

[shockcoil]

You say that as if longer games are a bad thing. The average game seems to be decided in about 30 minutes these days. That's not that long

[Hicks58]

If I knew that losing a unit had a lower effect on my company, I'd happily place it in riskier situations.