Demo Charges

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[tank130]

I agree with hicks

[LeoPhone]

they already are vulnerable to damage

[CrazyWR]

I thought there was a bug where some of them weren't?  Also, I'm not sure why they can't be swept away by minesweepers...that makes no sense.

[LeoPhone]

they CAN be swept away by minesweepers

[Smokaz]

but for everyone else: you also need to consider EIR's vet system. weapons that instakill units are undesirable, especially when they are very hard to counter(giving demos mine cloak would make them harder to counter)^^^

true for vehicle vet as well, which does not have the auto-ai escape called "retreat". unless you are saying that teller mined tanks somehow have a easier time to escape than a demo squad that actually survives, and demos are not always insta gib

also: inf vet has been more prevalent than vehicle vet for a long time

because demos blow up multiple squads and kill all while mines don't.

teller mines have splash and can hit two vehicles at once, while its unlikely, it can happen and its not that extremely much more reasonable play to rush squads tightly together compared to rushing two vehicles

bottom line: both demo and teller mine spam is undesirable for gameplay if you want to avoid it "slowing down", its also quite gimmicky

Solution: make them both more expensive

[CrazyWR]

teller mines are already expensive, leave them out of this.  Also, people need to stop bitching and l2use minesweepers ffs.

[Wolster]

Last game ill be playing with this pro axis mod thats for sure, do love the how any threat to the uber vetted axis elite inf gets the gib treatment, whilst the poor Commando player has now got usless Demos (no matter what price they become), worst elite inf in the game(can b proven by the lack of vetted mandos in game- re crap upgrades, weak offensive power - so no chance you will be vetting these guys as they carnt kill nethin+silly vet requirements), & several worthless Doctrine choices now which specifically buffed the use of Demo charges.

Commados was in no way an OP Doctrine in comparison to many axis choices (lol at scorched earth minelaying capability here), it had major difficulties in dealing with axis heavy armour, & it was only useful as an anti inf force imo, well with the demo nerf, that role is severly gimped now - well done.

[NightRain]

well with the demo nerf, that role is severly gimped now - well done.

Could you explain me of your version of Demo charge's role please.

[Hicks58]

because demos blow up multiple squads and kill all while mines don't.

It also needs to be noted if you run infantry around clumped together than your running a conscious risk. You KNOW that an MG could insta-suppress the lot, a stray arty shell could gib most of it, so on and so forth.

Oh and my previous mention of vulnerability to damage wasn't ignorance to the fact that they are already vulnerable to fire - It's to reiterate that it stays that way.

[Nijo]

i dont see anything wrong with teller mines. They are strong but expensive and easy to counter if you know the enemy is using them.

Demos should be the same on allied side. Make them easy to couter (sweeper) but devastating if you are to dumb to mention it.

[Smokaz]

Last game ill be playing with this pro axis mod thats for sure, do love the how any threat to the uber vetted axis elite inf gets the gib treatment, whilst the poor Commando player has now got usless Demos (no matter what price they become), worst elite inf in the game(can b proven by the lack of vetted mandos in game- re crap upgrades, weak offensive power - so no chance you will be vetting these guys as they carnt kill nethin+silly vet requirements), & several worthless Doctrine choices now which specifically buffed the use of Demo charges.

Commados was in no way an OP Doctrine in comparison to many axis choices (lol at scorched earth minelaying capability here), it had major difficulties in dealing with axis heavy armour, & it was only useful as an anti inf force imo, well with the demo nerf, that role is severly gimped now - well done.

I liked your take on the commando doctrine. Many times I played your company and I thought "this was pretty annoying and different". Wolster would set up these trench bases with piats defending a mg in the corners, constructing the trench to "touch" two sectors.

[smurfORnot]

teller's can always be spotted by sweepers. You put demo in building,and enemy simply cant know if there is or is not demo inside. ANd it can insta kill ANY inf unit vet0 or vet3 who enters this building.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Go with Commando bottom t2 sapper mine, due to loltastic loltasticness they get +9 to explosive radius.

[aeroblade56]

ANd it can insta kill ANY inf unit vet0 or vet3 who enters this building.

For the most part thats true i even had a replay of me eating herrpants 2 vet3 elite grens in a house.

But i thought a  minesweeper detected the explosive? i just mortar everyhouse before i go into it.

[Ahnungsloser]

Goliath:

Damage: 375
AOE: 8
Ranges (Short-Mid-Long): 4/6/8
Damage (Short-Mid-Long): 1/0.8/0.45
Pen(Short-Mid-Long): 1.5/1.5/1.5
Surpession: 1/1/1

Democharge:

Damage: 200
AOE: 12
Ranges (Short-Mid-Long): 5/8/12
Damage (Short-Mid-Long): 1/0.25/0.12
Penetration Modifier: 1/1/1
Surpession: 0.4/0.3/0.25

Cover Table




Edit:

Go with Commando bottom t2 sapper mine, due to loltastic loltasticness they get +9 to explosive radius.

The basic ranges are 5/8/15 gets increased to 8/11/15, that's a range increase of +3 and not +9.  

[TheIcelandicManiac]

oh well i read it wrong, never the less 8 in close range explosion is loltastic rape instant face and will kill grens with ease, allso it would be +3 to close and +3 to medium making it +6, still more than 3

[Audemed]

stop ramboing in and use a 0 pop 80mp 10 mu minesweeper to defuse the 120 munition teller

You mean 1 pop unit to defuse a 70 munitions teller?

I'm sure you do.

[Ahnungsloser]

The only funny thing about the Demo Charge is the fact that you damage Units in a Halftrack with a Modifier of x1 and for negative Cover
an obvious bonus of two times the basic damage. But all in all the goliath has a better overall performance. The Democharges are bit cheaper, but for
providing a Goliath you need only a Pioneer and the Commonwealth Player needs Commanda Squad. The Goliath is a single unit and makes a guerilla drive
by explosion (plus being invisible in cover) and planting a Democharges becomes a deadly mission with a expensive Squad.

[TheVolskinator]

i dont see anything wrong with teller mines. They are strong but expensive and easy to counter if you know the enemy is using them.

Tell that to WindCriesMary and his 26 squads of PGs with Tellers. According to him, his company has no AT and no AI whatsoever, and even a mildly compitent player could hardcounter his company--cuz Minesweepers just waltz through 4 squads worth of PG rifle fire. His added ?dual panthers are also sporting, since tellers blow up ATGs and he loves to spam them near decrewed ones.

OT, Mando demos are fine, Engineer ones are utter crap. They can only be placed on axis sandbags and bunkers, which limits their use as a booby trap, maybe placing your demo on your own sandbags and luring somebody onto them during a firefight. Its the same logic as luring someone over a mine -> unit is damaged and in yellow cover, flamer engies rejoice.

^Make the above so/just give engies Mando demos, and I'd be fine with demos as-is right now. Make them detectable by everything, but only removable or damageable by mortars, arty, or minesweepers?

[Smokaz]

Engineer ones are crap because their targeting is bugged - it was reported like 1/2 year ago. Do a search.

It can't target 88 item for instance.