NightRain
|
|
« on: April 04, 2012, 08:31:10 am » |
|
I've got a small concern.
Are standard Tommies too expensive? Or are Sappers too cheap?
This question arose in my mind when I was looking at the two and to my surprise I didn't see much of a difference between the two.
Both come with soldier armor and with same rifles.
I was further baffled by the fact that their pool difference is only 1. 3 vs 4. Sappers pop is also 4 instead of 5 and therefore if you think of the situation you pay 105 manpower extra for 1 guy in a Tommy squad.
When making a company I noticed I get enormous ammount of sappers as mainline infantry and awfully little tommies in comparison. When also adding that you get 2x mines for 35 munitions and piats for 120 I wondered which would be more cost effective. While Tommies indeed come WITH better alternative weapon upgrades they can't build things like TTs, sandbags or barbwire. In infantry combat a Vanilla tommy squad and a Sapper squad stand on similar grounds. Same armor type, same rifle 1 guy less but 1 pop cheaper. It is also cheaper to use sappers to recrew things rather than tommies.
So I'm concerned of this:
Are sappers
180 manpower 4 pop 4 pool
Too cheap or
255 manpower 5 pop 3 pool
Tommies too expensive?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Because a forum post should be like a woman's skirt. Long enough to cover the subject material, but short enough to keep things interesting.
 |
|
|
| 8thRifleRegiment
|
|
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2012, 08:46:44 am » |
|
I fail to see the point of taking tommies unless you plan on upgrading them, as sappers recicve the same rifles and are essentially a 4 man tommy sqaud you pay less per man for. Maybe tommies 230?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
 I will never forget the rage we enduced together  Ohh Good, AmPm can pay in Doubloons.
|
|
|
aeroblade56
Development
 Posts: 3871
|
|
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2012, 09:55:30 am » |
|
I think its fine. you recrew a squad and you have 1 useless engineer squad. Sappers will lose to grens and volks if they dont have a officer behind them true story. they also lack the close quarters AI ability to effectively take out assault infantry or elite infantry. and for some doctrines- RE that extra pool value since its already low (60 infantry pool) it does make a bit of a difference.
I prefer tommies most of the time due to 1 extra man being able to keep DPS longer.
y you try nerf allies?!?!!. even if you try to promote a balance system i smell nerf bat.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
You are welcome to your opinion.
You are also welcome to be wrong.
|
|
|
Hicks58
Development
Posts: 5343
|
|
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2012, 10:01:44 am » |
|
I wouldn't call a 1 man Sapper useless. He can cap, build defences and if you really want to be awkward, he can grab dropped weapons and run.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
I mean I know Obama was the first one in EiR to get a card. and tbfh the Race card is pretty OP. but Romney has the K.K.K., those guys seem to camo anywhere. So OP units from both sides.
At the end of the day, however, stormtroopers finally got the anal invasion with a cactus they have richly deserved for years.
|
|
|
Ahnungsloser
Donator
 Posts: 1447
|
|
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2012, 10:14:36 am » |
|
I wouldn't call a 1 man Sapper useless. He can cap, build defences and if you really want to be awkward, he can grab dropped weapons and run.
Reminds me a bit of the Leutnant or Captains which grabbed a Panzerscheck and going bananna with it. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
 9th Armoured Engineers |
|
|
LeoPhone
Honoured Member
 Posts: 0
|
|
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2012, 10:18:51 am » |
|
I didn't read the whole thread but your concern is correct nightrain.
sapper & tommies
popcost is the same, weapon is the same, suppression resistance is the same.
sappers are 4 pool instead of 3 but thats still so low you can use sappers as default inf.
really good for mine spam as well.
calculating tommies: 65x5/255 = 1.2745 hp per manpower cost
calculating sappers: 60x4/180 = 1.3333 hp per manpower cost
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
| NightRain
|
|
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2012, 11:00:49 am » |
|
What would be the Solution to this problem? Lower price on tommies? Increase cost of Sappers? I'm betting on the last as it'd make more sense in a way.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Tymathee
Donator
Posts: 9741
|
|
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2012, 12:00:13 pm » |
|
low price on tommies, they cost more than any other mainline infantry, even grens and its not like brits really get an alternative like wm does with cheapy volks.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"I want proof!"
"I have proof!"
"Whatever, I'm still right"
Dafuq man, don't ask for proof if you'll refuse it if it's not in your favor, logic fallacy for the bloody win.
|
|
|
aeroblade56
Development
Posts: 3871
|
|
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2012, 01:05:18 pm » |
|
NHC mod has highlanders. Be could to add a new unit adding a bit more options.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
| smurfORnot
|
|
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2012, 01:07:18 pm » |
|
why not add some cheaper infantry option as doctrine unlock? Like PE has waffles or panzerpioneers.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
LeoPhone
Honoured Member
Posts: 0
|
|
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2012, 01:08:54 pm » |
|
NHC mod has highlanders. Be could to add a new unit adding a bit more options.
lol. I was thinking about suggesting adding a new unit to fix this problem. as epic troll comment ofc. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
aeroblade56
Development
Posts: 3871
|
|
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2012, 01:11:35 pm » |
|
Could make sapper cost more pop. Make tommies Cost 225?. make highlanders cost 260. give highlanders swords. profit.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
| DarkSoldierX
|
|
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2012, 02:35:43 pm » |
|
The reason why tommies cost so much is the fact they can be a great platform for upgraded weaponry, especially when buffed by a officer. Id say reduce tommies MP by 30, but add a MP cost on brens for 30 MP.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
two words
atgs and fireflies
Looks who's butthurt |
|
|
| NightRain
|
|
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2012, 02:48:25 pm » |
|
The reason why tommies cost so much is the fact they can be a great platform for upgraded weaponry, especially when buffed by a officer. Id say reduce tommies MP by 30, but add a MP cost on brens for 30 MP.
If you dont go for brens it is still more cost effective to take 2 Sappers quads and buff THEM with a officer. 10 pop decent anti infantry platform haha. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
AmPM
Community Mapper
 Posts: 7978
|
|
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2012, 02:49:13 pm » |
|
WTB Riflenades on Sappers!
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
 . . . . . . . . . . . |
|
|
| NightRain
|
|
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2012, 02:51:21 pm » |
|
WTB Riflenades on Sappers!
You get them. They are called Richman's Riflegrenades. PIATs |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
| pqumsieh
|
|
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2012, 03:02:38 pm » |
|
Good thread Nighttrain; I'll bring it up in the BT.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Common sense is not so common after all.
|
|
|
| smurfORnot
|
|
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2012, 03:05:32 pm » |
|
withouth buffs from officer,just nilla tommies vs. nilla grens,who will win,and with how much guys/health left approximately?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
TheVolskinator
Administrator / Lead Developer
 Posts: 3012
|
|
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2012, 03:09:53 pm » |
|
I've messed around with Tommies and Sappers (no officers or vet invlolved) in vCoH a-la cheatmod. Grens, Volks, Tommies, and Sappers are unchanged in EiR; Even vanilla volks roflstomp nilla tommies and sappers if you're at any distance and you're in the same cover type at the same time. Grens absolutely destroy nilla tommies, and nilla sappers are so rarely useful. Frankly, tommies don't seem to be as useful as vanilla riflemen (which actually kill faster).
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
| Scotzmen
|
|
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2012, 03:29:20 pm » |
|
Could make sapper cost more pop. Make tommies Cost 225?. make highlanders cost 260. give highlanders swords. profit.
I approve of this option... No bais... Promise... |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
