Pak 36 - Why it sucks even for a low price

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[Smokaz]

Price - okay
Pool cost - low

You barely give up a panzergren squad w g43s for this weapon. The problem is that you'd probably get more use out of a panzergren squad in any situation than a pak36.

It has no penetration versus the medium/heavy stuff to talk about. Its treadbreak has been made retardedly underpowered and uses 10 seconds to power up. How many seconds is a light vehicle going to stay in your cone?

The biggest thing that could be done for this weapon is to give it a okay accuracy vs infantry. Then tank hunters could shoot back at enemy inf without charging stuff into range of zooks and jumbos and whatnot. It would also mean that TH could do some infantry/vehicle based combined arms, sort of like wehrmacht support.

If you're not going to buff it, I think you should remove the thing. It's taking up a unlock but giving no capability. It's unlock is named "Infantry support" but there's no support vs infantry from the pak36.

[Tymathee]

Yeah, it sux. I liked the first version of it when it was a more accurate ostwind gun. It just seems like a pop gun

[hans]

poooop gun 

[AmPM]

Why not just make it a lower pen PaK38, give it the ambush bonus and move while cloaked.

[Tymathee]

so a mirror gun? nah.

like smokaz said, just get rid of it, it's not needed. Heck, no one even picks these up when they're left on the battlefield unless they need SOMETHING and its the only thing left only to be highly disappointed.

It's a slow moving man pushed unit that fits a role that is filled better by the LAT which is faster, has free focus fire and can run away after firing. Much the same as the mg42 in SE it's a unit that doesn't fit the doctrine at all

[AmPM]

How would a gun that does similar damage, with lower penetration, that can move cloaked and possibly have a wider arc of fire be a mirror of a higher pen gun, with lower arc and higher penetration?

With that logic, remove 17pdr and PaK40, they mirror other ATGs. Also remove 6pdr because it is a 57mm without cover.

[NightRain]

How would a gun that does similar damage, with lower penetration, that can move cloaked and possibly have a wider arc of fire be a mirror of a higher pen gun, with lower arc and higher penetration?

With that logic, remove 17pdr and PaK40, they mirror other ATGs. Also remove 6pdr because it is a 57mm without cover.

What sorts of stats does the PAK36 have?

Damage.
Acc.
Pen.

[TheVolskinator]

TBH a strat that struck me as possibly good was APCR hetzers and Pak 36s. Hetzers w. spotting scopes keep tanks away and the PaK36 keeps pesky LVs and TDs off your back. Hetzers can also snipe infantry, but you could just as well add an AC or a few PG squads in.

Hetzers are pretty resistant to bazookas which is an added boon.

[Tymathee]

How would a gun that does similar damage, with lower penetration, that can move cloaked and possibly have a wider arc of fire be a mirror of a higher pen gun, with lower arc and higher penetration?

With that logic, remove 17pdr and PaK40, they mirror other ATGs. Also remove 6pdr because it is a 57mm without cover.

Comment on one thing, totally ignore the logical part that calls the unit a piece of crap. Pure ampm

just get rid of the pak36, it doesn't fit, even IF you do change it to be a weak version of the pak38, it STILL doesn't fit tank hunter OR PE.

why is the unit needed? It can't shoot through smoke...

[AmPM]

Stummel with flame rounds?

Flamethrower Hetzer upgrade??

Flammpanzers?

[RikiRude]

These things are pretty awesome at what they do, kill LVs. You aren't supposed to use the tread break on LVs though, you use it on a tank, then bring up real AT. It does need buffs though, and should be stronger vs infantry, but not by much, because then it would just be too versatile, unless you raised it's pop and stuff.

I think there's a place for it, but it shouldn't be a doctrine specific weapon.

Although now that I think about it, I've only used it as US when I've stolen it, and it might be more of a weakness for PE, because if it gets capped, then it's really going to put the hurt on your lvs!

[TheVolskinator]

I think keeping its current AT abilities and then making it into an emplaced M8 37mm cannon vs. infantry (through damage and accuracy target tables) would make it a pretty balanced peice. Because of the M8-like AI ability it could possibly stave off Rangers if properly used and supported. And TBH, I think the PaK36 would make an excellent omniavailable anti LV peice to both Axis armies (since there's so much QQ about dealing with allied LVs).

[Demon767]

I didnt know you played axis tym

[Shabtajus]

this thing is too slow and to bad to use vs anything, fuck stats pak36 cant do shit in current gameplay, its eassy to circle with LVs and vs inf it do not do shit.

how about giving a biger arc to this gun? like 180 degrees?

[LiquiDeath]

+1 for removin this utter POS.

i played TH for 1 year, i even tried to try this weapon more - no dice, i cant figure why it is even there...

TH need something to deal with AI, crowds of roflmen are scary and even if I was sacrificing AT to have like 3-4 mortarHTs, still need some AI buff option.

pls, do something with stummel, or make mp44 grens cheaper/resitent or something

in meantime u can throwaway pak36, no use

[NightRain]

Increase penetration modifier vs M10 Armor and LVs then it is useful.