Proposal to EIRRMOD, the Devs and the community.

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[RikiRude]

You know I typed this whole huge long thing on my phone which took FOREVER and I guess it didn't fucking go through, so here it is again!

So we all know the player base is at a considerable low. We can place blame where we want, it's mostly slow due to the releases of mechwarrior online, torchlight 2, and borderlands 2. But we know that those are certainly not the ONLY reasons. The mod is stagnant, the war map doesn't really have anything to offer atm, and people are filtering out until something happens. Well I can here to try to motivate people, all of you in fact!

So first I discuss EIRRMOD and the dev team, let's be honest here folks, you haven't given us much to get excited about for some time. Now here's what I have to say, you guys need a patch before the end of october, I can't emphasize that enough! If you don't put one out before the end of october EIRR will be pretty fucking dead until mid january, because let's be honest everyone will be too busy during the holidays to get much done. So please, take what you have now, tidy it up and release it in the next few weeks for our sake and yours. It'll be like turning homework in before the weekend so you don't have to worry about it.

EIRRMOD and coders, stahp, just stop. Take a breath, look at all the hard work you've done thus far and start putting it together, don't finish up that one last thing, just get what you have and be done with it. Release what's done now and give yourselves a real vacation from the mod for the holidays so you can start fresh in the new year, you all deserve it!

Another thing if we get a release before october that means we will have tons of people interested when they are on THEIR holidays, and we will get tons of new players! Even if you give us a small patch and give us reward points to play with we will be happy, at least I know I will be!



Now that I got that those wonderful fellows out of the way, no it's for you. You filthy community!

First off, an easy way to help the mod out is just a simple donation. Come on, skip mcdonalds one day and use that money to donate to the mod, just $5! Heck donate $2, if everyone donated $2 it would make a great impact. You love this mod, so give a little!

But you don't have money you say? Well don't fret! Post about EIRR on some gaming forums, get people interested!

Heck got a lot of free time? make a shoutcast and spam it on some forums! reel some new blood in!

Not only that, get new players, then BE NICE TO THEM! help keep them around, help them out, make them want to play the mod.

Furthermore, if you like playing eirr but are all "uhg no ones in the launcher!" and you just leave, dont! stay in the launcher, check in, or at least get on vent so we can grab you for a game if need be, it will really help things out!




For those of you who think "tl:dr" im just saying that the devs need to get a patch out before the end of october so we can pull everyone in for the holidays. people need to start doing some donations and helping do some marketing or whatever to get the mod out to more people.

Thanks guys, together we can start seeing more than 6 people in the launcher!

[hans]

You know I typed this whole huge long thing on my phone which took FOREVER and I guess it didn't fucking go through, so here it is again!

So we all know the player base is at a considerable low. We can place blame where we want, it's mostly slow due to the releases of mechwarrior online, torchlight 2, and borderlands 2. But we know that those are certainly not the ONLY reasons. The mod is stagnant, the war map doesn't really have anything to offer atm, and people are filtering out until something happens. Well I can here to try to motivate people, all of you in fact!

So first I discuss EIRRMOD and the dev team, let's be honest here folks, you haven't given us much to get excited about for some time. Now here's what I have to say, you guys need a patch before the end of october, I can't emphasize that enough! If you don't put one out before the end of october EIRR will be pretty fucking dead until mid january, because let's be honest everyone will be too busy during the holidays to get much done. So please, take what you have now, tidy it up and release it in the next few weeks for our sake and yours. It'll be like turning homework in before the weekend so you don't have to worry about it.

EIRRMOD and coders, stahp, just stop. Take a breath, look at all the hard work you've done thus far and start putting it together, don't finish up that one last thing, just get what you have and be done with it. Release what's done now and give yourselves a real vacation from the mod for the holidays so you can start fresh in the new year, you all deserve it!

Another thing if we get a release before october that means we will have tons of people interested when they are on THEIR holidays, and we will get tons of new players! Even if you give us a small patch and give us reward points to play with we will be happy, at least I know I will be!

i kinda have to agree with that. But everything anybody of the community wants to offer feels as if its a fucking waste. Devs should come back to the community and have to talk and listen to them. therefore forum has to be proberly moderated and has to be a platform for each others exchange of information. If EIRRmod wants to develope the mod by himself, then its fine. If there is also a long break for coders and other persons. Its fine. BUT they have to communicate with the community. If u leave the community to itself, they feel lost and losing interest and are feeling as if nothing happens even if thats not true.

So devs really have to decide working with or without the community now. If they follow the way they do right now, they will lose the playerbase and very good heads of their community.

PS: if they did not already lost many of them

Now that I got that those wonderful fellows out of the way, no it's for you. You filthy community!

First off, an easy way to help the mod out is just a simple donation. Come on, skip mcdonalds one day and use that money to donate to the mod, just $5! Heck donate $2, if everyone donated $2 it would make a great impact. You love this mod, so give a little!

But you don't have money you say? Well don't fret! Post about EIRR on some gaming forums, get people interested!

Heck got a lot of free time? make a shoutcast and spam it on some forums! reel some new blood in!

Not only that, get new players, then BE NICE TO THEM! help keep them around, help them out, make them want to play the mod.

Furthermore, if you like playing eirr but are all "uhg no ones in the launcher!" and you just leave, dont! stay in the launcher, check in, or at least get on vent so we can grab you for a game if need be, it will really help things out!




For those of you who think "tl:dr" im just saying that the devs need to get a patch out before the end of october so we can pull everyone in for the holidays. people need to start doing some donations and helping do some marketing or whatever to get the mod out to more people.

Thanks guys, together we can start seeing more than 6 people in the launcher!

why should i try to actually convince other persons for this mod if i feel myself lost and not convinced? Why should i try to catch people if i dont like how veteran players treat new players so bad that they leave the mod within 1 week or less again? srsly ?!?!

all the problems arent easy to fix in short terms and wont be solved if we doesnt focus on them.

and i would actually like to have a developement of the warmap if we have a good and finished structure or base the players can actually play with while development progresses. But right now we have a developement of the warmap in secret and a halffinished base of the mod.

I dont mind if the devs decide to go ahead with that, but it might be a danger for the essential part of the mod, the playerbase.

PS: If devs dont feel or want to talk with the community, then we have to face it and say that we really make a winter break until we see someting new?

[Poppi]

so in short... communicate with the EIR community.

[GORKHALI]

put winter maps in and take out the brown maps for winter ,that might help a bit .... and reward points of course

[hans]

so in short... communicate with the EIR community.

thats just one point. i can count again thousand problems, but iam already to tired of listing them again and again without any solution or response of devs.

as an example auto-match to save time instead of waiting hours for a game. That are essential points and the base i was talking about before. Stacking new players is bullshit and we need a fair system that allows random teams ... but iam not the developer that has to think about that...

instead of thinking about these essential points, devs are developing the warmap in their far away places while the community has to live with the essential problems.

WE need a fair and proper base before we go to the luxury features of EIRR. But well, thats just one point.

Another point is the behaviour of the community playin for winning instead of for fun. Thats just simple a prob of the bonus system we have roight now. U benefit from winning while u get punished in a certain way for losing. So why decide losing just to help a new player if it punishes u??

FUCK i give a shit about that anymore because in 2 month we still sit here and look in a black hole...

If they say ", WHY DO U COMPLAIN, just leave the mod!!!", then i take my chance and leave the mod. Fucking waste of time...

[Dnicee]

Hans... Im not sure if you can handle the truth but here it is.

A) The playerbase is to small for an auto-match system. People will still stack and join the game by talking via ventrilo or launcher.

B) Warmap is very important to get people to start playing again and get new players in to the mod.

C) When it comes to playing for fun contra playing for win. There is no way it can be changed, its entirely up to the players. The dev team cant do anything about that.

D) When it comes to getting punished for losing... you raise a fair point. But I doubt it can be changed. Changing it so you dont get punished for losing would also mean that you dont gain anything or (nearly enough) when winning. Then the mod would lose it persistence.


Imo, what we would need is fast and small but very important changes like:

1) the old system where it said how the 181st Terror company crushed 101st Airborne company in a fierce battle over normandie etc. Everyone read it, everyone enjoyed it. And you was embarassed when you lost and proud when you won. Plus you actualy felt something when reading it.

2) Reward points

3) shoutcasts

4) (already mentioned in earlier posts) Even if you dont have any updates coming soon devs you can still update us on that you dont have any updates coming in a while and tell us more about what youre working on.

5) Balance update, in current state, from an objective (Vermillion) view, allies op, please fix. Doesnt need to be much, but do something.

6) The updates doesnt need to be huge, small ones would be enough to keep the community happy.

7) Just.... do something with the AB doctrine, anything.

And with that said, unban me from balance, my 30 days are up i think. If not, i should be released for good behavior.

[SophiaT1991]

warmap reset.

*waits for someone who doesnt currently play to say that will make it boring*

[hans]

Hans... Im not sure if you can handle the truth but here it is.

A) The playerbase is to small for an auto-match system. People will still stack and join the game by talking via ventrilo or launcher.

well, its a problem, but if we have 6 players in launcher and 3 of them refuse to join a stack u can give up because it will take a while (hours) until there will be something happening. A automatch works also on a low base of players...

+ how many players are talking on vent? i would guess half of the players or less

B) Warmap is very important to get people to start playing again and get new players in to the mod.

but players should stay longer than 1 week, that should be the aim. U saw how many players we had in the early release of the warmap. How many do we have now? Ijust remember the stacks with bear and co. The side that was stomping more had the greatest progress on the warmap. Sry, but that doesnt solve core problems

C) When it comes to playing for fun contra playing for win. There is no way it can be changed, its entirely up to the players. The dev team cant do anything about that.

well, if u benefit in a system good and fair behaviour, it will help... If we benefit winning, the main aim is winning. If we benefit playin a game, we solve the problem of playin for win and let playin for fun develope again. We cant create big challenges with this small playerbase of so many different skill levels.

D) When it comes to getting punished for losing... you raise a fair point. But I doubt it can be changed. Changing it so you dont get punished for losing would also mean that you dont gain anything or (nearly enough) when winning. Then the mod would lose it persistence.

benefit simply that u play instead of the result!!!

We dont have the playerbase for that kinda persistency. Right now it makes it alot harder to get a game than it normally would be with a low playerbase.

Imo, what we would need is fast and small but very important changes like:

1) the old system where it said how the 181st Terror company crushed 101st Airborne company in a fierce battle over normandie etc. Everyone read it, everyone enjoyed it. And you was embarassed when you lost and proud when you won. Plus you actualy felt something when reading it.

2) Reward points

3) shoutcasts

4) (already mentioned in earlier posts) Even if you dont have any updates coming soon devs you can still update us on that you dont have any updates coming in a while and tell us more about what youre working on.

5) Balance update, in current state, from an objective (Vermillion) view, allies op, please fix. Doesnt need to be much, but do something.

6) The updates doesnt need to be huge, small ones would be enough to keep the community happy.

7) Just.... do something with the AB doctrine, anything.

And with that said, unban me from balance, my 30 days are up i think. If not, i should be released for good behavior.

give rewardpoints or change names of comapnies still dont effect the core problems imo

AB doctrine change is a better way. finish and try to balance to a certain degree the doctrines. Thats a base and should work if u go ahead with extra features...

shoutcasts are a great idea, but we therefore need a crew that is responsible for that. Old so called shoutcasters just ghost around on the forums doing nothing. That also includes reworking moderaters positions and all the tasks for a big bunch of persons. there are no mderaters, crews for shoutcasters that are not up to date and so on...ampm is a community mapper? i dont see the point if he doesnt do shit ...

[terrapinsrock]

Hans... Im not sure if you can handle the truth but here it is.

Imo, what we would need is fast and small but very important changes like:


2) Reward points

4) (already mentioned in earlier posts) Even if you dont have any updates coming soon devs you can still update us on that you dont have any updates coming in a while and tell us more about what youre working on.

I kinda disagree with hans, though Reward units were never that balanced, at least giving out some Reward points would attract people back to the mod and give an incentive to the few players left to play again.

We need updates to at least that theres some progress or even a thought about the PE review and balance as the community hasn't heard much in the past few months.

shoutcasts are a great idea, but we therefore need a crew that is responsible for that. Old so called shoutcasters just ghost around on the forums doing nothing. That also includes reworking moderaters positions and all the tasks for a big bunch of persons. there are no mderaters, crews for shoutcasters that are not up to date and so on...ampm is a community mapper? i dont see the point if he doesnt do shit ...

A new shoutcast could work wonders for the mod, hell even I could help with some of the editing, but we would need some of the armchair generals to come back to give us a game worth shoutcasting.

[hans]

i like to repeat that:

attracting players and holding players are two different pairs of shoes.

We have seen from the past that reward points and shoutcasts can attract people, i do agree. But also the short term effect of 1 or 2 weeks is not the solution. After a short time, the  players will leave again.

[EIRRMod]

While I can see where your heart is at Riki, I believe you have missed some points, or clearly underestimate the amount of work it takes to get things done.

Firstly, I work on the mod every day.  It may only be 30 mins - 2 hours, its DAILY.  Now, if I had the time to 'Polish up and release something' - well, youd never see another fucking patch AGAIN lol!
Theres a lot to do.  Im reworking the entire warmap (Its campy, no end game, rewards stacking).  Im adding in warmap cards, which will just introduce a HUGE number of imbalances that require the doctrine drafts to be implemented (which, at this stage is quite a distant thing).  And lastly, Im attempting to think of how to finalise and implement an automatch (wont be next patch though) - which SHOULD help with the stacking, but again, at low pop times, will just result in no games (although, that is better than no games due to stacking ALL the time).

I will do a reset of the warmap however, as it is serving NO purpose being full up.
Ill put it to a vote however.

Last on my list is, would people actually come to a ventrilo event fortnightly - at the same time, talk about some issues, and then get some games on?  We were thinking of doing this on a dev scale every Sat, but why not make it a community thing?  Start off with a short discussion on progress, maybe a couple of screenshots / thread posts - then move on to a game night sort of thing.

I for one want to not only get the numbers back up, but KEEP people playing.  I understand that at this time we are (seemingly) stagnant, but what to do about that if there is nothing to release?  Releasing a patch with nothing in it in my opinion is a waste of bandwidth.

[Groundfire]

you guys know what i did when i didnt think the mod was not progressing fast enough?


I made shoutcasts
I learned how to map
I volunteered for map lead
I updated our moddb page
I did a metric fuckton launcher 2d art
I learned how to use corsix
I learned how to code
I committed many hours to design work and tutorials
I made by hand and ran my own campagin

I see alot of griping but no one steps up to the plate. I have a career now, my mod work is confined to the weekends but i still work in it. plus ive earned a break anyways.

If you really want this to go faster, what we need is time and dedication from those with the capability. unfortunately, throwing money at this project only gets us so far. we need talented bodies.

If your excuse for not helping is "well im just too busy" well then i dont really have too much sympathy for that nonsense.

[nikomas]

All I saw was warmap reset... my vet Q_Q

[tank130]

I know I speak for most of the Dev team when I say we are just tired of the bullshit.

The lynch mobs; the personal attacks; the insults; insulting pics like the one Ray made of Eirrmod or the nazi hat on Tank. The insults Leo receives if there is a coding error or a change made you do not agree with. The insults hurled at Groundfire for not doing enough promotions (in your opinion). The insults and badgering members of the balance team receive each patch; forcing some of the most valuable assets to quit.

We are human and get tired of the constant insults. We have thick skin, you must to do this, but a large number of you have worn that skin down.

Eirrmod is pretty much the only person on the team doing anything right now and frankly, he is not doing a lot.

Sure, you can blame us for lack of development or communication, but you can not blame us for the lack of motivation. With out motivation there is no development. With out development, the is nothing to communicate.


On the positive side: The mod dies every September. We get these "the end is near" threads every fall. The mod is not dieing. This mod could go completely cold for months. All we would need to do is release a giant patch with a completed warmap and it would spring back to life. The game is too good and the mod is too good to just disappear.

[hans]

I know I speak for most of the Dev team when I say we are just tired of the bullshit.

The lynch mobs; the personal attacks; the insults; insulting pics like the one Ray made of Eirrmod or the nazi hat on Tank. The insults Leo receives if there is a coding error or a change made you do not agree with. The insults hurled at Groundfire for not doing enough promotions (in your opinion). The insults and badgering members of the balance team receive each patch; forcing some of the most valuable assets to quit.

insults should be punished no matter when and what. Thats what i claim, we need a working forum. BAN THE FUCKERS WHO INSULT!! and with fast response. MAKE THE FORUM A SERIOUS PLACE AGAIN and let moderators do their job again, let people do moderator
jobs.

+ everyone who complains should take a break like me. But as long as noone is able to moderate forum, forum will be still the most effective place to insult and so on.

Is it so hard to get the control over the forum for the devs?

[GORKHALI]

Maybe eir mod should advertise for need of coders and development speed, i am kin
da useless at anything except my fail maps.

[terrapinsrock]

I know I speak for most of the Dev team when I say we are just tired of the bullshit.

The lynch mobs; the personal attacks; the insults; insulting pics like the one Ray made of Eirrmod or the nazi hat on Tank.

This can be solved as you solved the Ray problem: the banhammer

I agree with hans, the forums needs a little more moderation to protect against useless complaints and trolls which will hopefully decrease the insults that the Dev team gets.Though, we need a part of the forum for legitimate complaints and ideas. On the other hand,  most people in this thread have not been insulting the motivation of the Dev team, but the complete lack of communication which leaves the community in the dark for long periods of time.

I know I speak for most of the Dev team when I say we are just tired of the bullshit.

On the positive side: The mod dies every September. We get these "the end is near" threads every fall. The mod is not dieing. This mod could go completely cold for months. All we would need to do is release a giant patch with a completed warmap and it would spring back to life. The game is too good and the mod is too good to just disappear.

Might be true, but with every slow period, you increase the chance that people will leave permanently, and besides why not use this time effectively to do some marketing and  inject some new blood into the mod?

you guys know what i did when i didnt think the mod was not progressing fast enough?


I made shoutcasts
I learned how to map
I volunteered for map lead
I updated our moddb page
I did a metric fuckton launcher 2d art
I learned how to use corsix
I learned how to code
I committed many hours to design work and tutorials
I made by hand and ran my own campagin

I see alot of griping but no one steps up to the plate. I have a career now, my mod work is confined to the weekends but i still work in it. plus ive earned a break anyways.

If you really want this to go faster, what we need is time and dedication from those with the capability. unfortunately, throwing money at this project only gets us so far. we need talented bodies.

If your excuse for not helping is "well im just too busy" well then i dont really have too much sympathy for that nonsense.

I would be fine with helping out with some of this stuff if you need some.
 

[pqumsieh]

Regarding balance, Skaffa has stepped in as lead; ill be helping out with the coding to help get caught up on the backlog created by the updated doctrines.

Balance team is focusing their efforts on PE, next patch will be heavily focused on the faction as a whole. With the doctrines in place and someone tweaks to their core gameplay mechanics they should become a competitive faction.

Mind you, this will likely require 2-3 patches to accomplish.

Things have been a bit slow on our end, I've been really busy with work and life which is why Skaffa will be replacing me. Hopefully once we get some of the new changes/content out we will have a more motivated team.

[tank130]

Might be true, but with every slow period, you increase the chance that people will leave permanently, and besides why not use this time effectively to do some marketing and  inject some new blood into the mod?

It would be silly to promote the mod in it's current condition. There are too many incomplete or broken items to be advertising to new people. Very bad first impression.

insults should be punished no matter when and what. Thats what i claim, we need a working forum. BAN THE FUCKERS WHO INSULT!! and with fast response. MAKE THE FORUM A SERIOUS PLACE AGAIN and let moderators do their job again, let people do moderator
jobs.

+ everyone who complains should take a break like me. But as long as noone is able to moderate forum, forum will be still the most effective place to insult and so on.

Is it so hard to get the control over the forum for the devs?

It is very easy for us to gain control over the forums. Even more easy to ban the people creating most of the issues.
Unfortunately, we have tried this in the past few months, only to be shit on as Nazis. Continuous arguments from people that we are destroying all their fun and making it a dull community.

It can be very difficult drawing the line between bannable offenses and just turning the other cheek. I would love nothing more then to clean up the bullshit in this community and create an environment of fun and positivity. Remove all the negative personal attacks and rhetoric.

We don't need more moderators, we just need more moderation. We need stricter control on the bullshit. Unfortunately, many people on these forums can't handle it.


In regards to communication: Sorry guys, you do not hear any communication because there is really nothing to communicate. Nothing is really getting one because no one really wants to do it. - it's that simple.

We have posted that the doctrine drafts are completed, but our only current coder does not want to code them. So now we are trying to train new guys, but that will take a long time before they are capable of coding complex items like doctrines.

We have posted that Eirrmod is working on the Warmap.

So what else could we possibly post about? There is nothing else getting done. And let's be honest, anything we do post about gets ripped to shit by the community and theory crafting.

For example: if we post the doctrine drafts, it would turn into a cluster fuck of theory crafting and criticism before anyone even tried the abilities. Before someone says "you should listen to community input" just take a cruise through the balance forums. Show me one thread where this community actually agrees on something.......

There comes a point when we have to trust the BT and SDT and just put the shit out there. If it fails or needs changing, then we can adjust it. We have been discussing doctrines for over a year, it's time to just put it to the test and stop with the theory work.

[PonySlaystation]

Everyone is waiting for coh2.