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Author Topic: mainstream maps  (Read 4283 times)
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ick312 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 534


« on: January 11, 2013, 05:42:03 am »

hello gentlemen,

well, i am concerned after playing  a map that was changed and seeing the many threads about mapbuilding.

Well what i fear is that maps become similiar, that they become a pattern and do not really differ anymore.
IT SHOULD NOT BE "which gameplay should it be" or "theres an open field" or "there are too many buildungs"
The only thing topic which a map should have is the designers idea and no pattern.

IF there are maps that are not liked, OK but leave them as they are. Maybe only few players play them, but they are an option, if you are bored by the standard maps.

So Map builders, thx for your great work!!! and plz keep your individual style.

best regards ick



ps: you can now derail that thread
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I don't know Wind, that whole 21 virgins thing kinda peaked my interest a little .......
From fucking kids to fucking christ, jesus heartmann. Just stop already you filthy monster, you are only making it worse
Scotzmen Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2035


« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2013, 06:44:40 am »

But having maps to a specific design and pattern, eliminates one of the effects that contribute to the already  steep learning curve of this mod.
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tank130 Offline
Sugar Daddy
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Posts: 8889


« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2013, 10:10:44 am »

I think all maps need to have a minimum playability level. There are some maps out there that are so broken, game play wise, it is silly to have them.

On the flip side, I agree that forcing all maps into skaffatology or anyone else's -tology is boring and counter productive.

The fact of the matter is, we can preach creativity and uniqueness all day long. There may be 1, 2 , 3 games played on a really unique map, but what's the point really.

When we look down the list and see a map like Ardene Valley getting 2 plays since the last reset, we have to recognize that having that map there is just silly.
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Quote
Geez, while Wind was banned I forgot that he is, in fact, totally insufferable
I'm not going to lie Tig, 9/10 times you open your mouth, I'm overwhelmed with the urge to put my foot in it.
TheWindCriesMary Offline
The Ethics Police
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2630


« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2013, 12:30:53 pm »

That's true in the case of Ardenne valley for sure, but I couldn't agree with Icki more.


Maps like Bastion, St. Winn, Linden (before Unknown removed it because he "didn't like it), Villers Bocage etc. are GOOD maps with perfectly fine playability.

In these cases, even if they don't have lots of plays, they're still really valuable to have in the launcher. They give players who don't just want to play the same kind of map over and over the chance to explore different kinds of terrain.

And who knows, maybe soon we'll start seeing players organize specific map games in the launcher. Eg. "Ok people joining this game, it's specifically for villers bocage. Adjust your companies accordingly before RFS'ing"
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Vermillion Hawk: Do you ever make a post that doesnt make you come across as an extreme douchebag?

Just sayin'
Unkn0wn Offline
No longer retired
*
Posts: 18379


« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2013, 12:43:30 pm »

Linden was removed because it barely got any plays, I don't know why you insist on spouting such lies. We've always made clear that ultimately map popularity was going to determine whether or not newly introduced maps would continue being supported by us. And guess what, ultimately YOU, the community, are responsible for this. If you really feel so upset for having lost linden, then maybe you should have made a little more effort to get it the needed plays and appreciation from your peers. Don't hold developers responsible for your own failings as a community.

Now of course you can dispute that map popularity should be used as a standard for map continuation, but that's an entirely different discussion altogether and quite frankly the first time someone really brings it up. It's a bit pathetic that you don't bring this up at the time, when the map was about to be removed and its pending removal was clearly communicated.
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TheWindCriesMary Offline
The Ethics Police
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2630


« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2013, 01:08:09 pm »

Linden was removed because it barely got any plays, I don't know why you insist on spouting such lies. We've always made clear that ultimately map popularity was going to determine whether or not newly introduced maps would continue being supported by us.

I call absolute bullshit on this.

The later part of your rule as map lead was characterized by blatant cronyism in which maps were removed from the launcher and which maps survived based on whether you liked them or not. If there was a map you didn't like, you would continually lobby to remove it and do whatever you wanted regardless of what the community said. You were the king of ninja patches and ninja removals for mapping and otherwise. Maps that weren't hugely popular that you didn't like were doomed, even if there was a medium sized level of support for them.

 How do we prove this?

Well let's take Linden as an example. You claim in this post that survival of the fittest was the determining factor in which maps got removed. Play counts ruled all, you claim now. The community had the power to choose which maps survived! They could speak up if notice was given that a map was being considered for removal.

This is bullshit.

And yet, why is Linden gone while maps that got even fewer plays than it still remain?

For example:

March 9, 2010 Playcount thread (posted 2 weeks after a reset):

Linden: 9
6p_vire_valley:   6
6p_radarstation   5
6p_vieux_port   8
2p_st_mere_dumont   7
6p_ghost_town   7



Just type "Linden" into the search function and see how many posts there are of people saying they a) love it as well as b) replays taking place on it. It was a map that was unorthodox compared to Tanteville/abbeville but had a loyal following.


Quote
It's a bit pathetic that you don't bring this up at the time, when the map was about to be removed and its pending removal was clearly communicated.

This is the most giant scumbag, barefaced lie you could ever try to pull over on me. Just look at the threads you CONSTANTLY brought up trying to remove Linden and look at the responses people gave you. People were OVERWHELMINGLY in defense of keeping Linden and told you so. Did that matter at all? Big fucking NOPE

I mean jesus h christ, look at this thread. Over and over people responded to your desire to remove Linden. But none of that mattered because at the end of the day you didn't like it.

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=13200.0


So no, you're bullshit argument that "no one ever said anything" when it was announced you wanted to remove Linden and that it "didn't get enough plays" is denied.

It got just as much, if not more plays than many maps that are STILL in the launcher while also being a favourite amongst many players in the mod.

The one thing it did have against it though? You didn't fucking like the map.

As map lead with no oversight, sure it was your perrogative remove it.

But don't you dare try to come in here and lie to my face with all this nonsense about "the community decided" and "nobody tried to defend it" etc.

I call bullshit on you and thank the heaven's you're not in charge of maps anymore.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 01:13:43 pm by TheWindCriesMary » Logged
chefarzt Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1906



« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2013, 01:28:54 pm »

Ouch opposite to brown nosing this must be white nosing. Drop dat coke Wind.
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This community is full of a bunch of mindless idiots with memories like two year olds.

https://www.etsy.com/de/shop/ShitGlitter?ref=l2-shop-header-avatar
I'm not sure what you're so defensive about Tank.
 he makes shab look like a princess giving food to the poor.
Unkn0wn Offline
No longer retired
*
Posts: 18379


« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2013, 01:41:44 pm »

Oh, talk about using selective forum research Smiley. You refer to a thread where a lot of people support Linden, yet fail to mention that as a result of all the support for Linden at that time it wasn't included in the removal cycle. It's actually only later that it ended up getting removed, but you so conveniently ignore that fact.

In addition, maps were often evaluated over the course of several war cycles. Just because a map is unpopular at some point doesn't mean it always was and like I mentioned in another thread, former popular maps were not to be removed even if they fell out of grace with the community (This is why some maps like st come du mont aren't being removed)

Linden however never was truly popular, nor did it meet all the map requirements (and salan had left so no one bothered to update it in his place)
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TheWindCriesMary Offline
The Ethics Police
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2630


« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2013, 08:38:46 am »

Again I call bullshit. First of all, I invited you to simply "search" Linden in the forums so that you could see how overhwelmingly the community has, CONSISTENTLY, supported keeping Linden and not removing it.

IN fact, out of several dozen posts do you know what the ratio of "love it" to "dislike it" was? Was it 4:1? 7:1? 10:1? Try closer to 20:1.

And do you know who that :1 ALWAYS was (with one exception?). I do. It was you. Big surprise why the map came up for removal on the 2-3 occasions when you would make a thread arguing for it and some other maps to be removed.

And yet there is not a single time where one of your threads got responses agreeing that Linden should be removed. It was always the opposite. And yet, eventually, Linden "magically" disappeared from the launcher anyway.

Why? Because you fucking didn't like it and, despite all the public support for the map, figured you could remove the map and no one would notice. Well, people did notice but there wasn't much they could do.

If a guy with power is just gonna ninja cut maps out of the mod because of his personal distaste it means those who like them are shit out of luck.


And just to debunk the BS "selective research" claim: i even invited you to search Linden into the forum search to prove that support for this map (and love for it) has been consistently strong.

Here's a taste of some of the people who have said they love Linden, it should be brought back or that it is their favourite map over the years:

salan: http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=8204.msg145430#msg145430
Riki Rude: http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=20594.msg361674#msg361674
Spinn: "Linden EIR was probably my favourite map, then it got ninja removed because mods thought nobody liked it. "

Hmmm, sounds familiar.... http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=20594.msg361661#msg361661

Wildzontar: Whatever happened to Linden?
I know heaps of players that loved it  http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=18224.msg318034#msg318034
3rdCondor:  "I like the maps like Linden that have an open-terrain sandwich" http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=17682.msg306728#msg306728
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