Scotty's enlightenment quest

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[Scotzmen]

As i was transferred over to night shift recently I had a lovely discussion, with a few of my religious co-workers.
One is part of the salvation army, one is a Hindu, and the other, just believes in god, doesn't follow anything the bible sets etc. It almost sounds like a set-up to a joke, but it isn't, sadly . So we had a discussion scince and religion. I'm not exactly schooled well in everything science and scientific theory, whilst the salvation guy was in both science and his religion. So i was basically standing my own with very little knowledge. I am an atheist. And my views on it shall never be changed.

A lot of things he brought up was how evolution has been diss-proven, by apparently a lot of scientests. He said that Charles Darwin actually renounced his theory on evolution on his deathbed. But after research, i found the Charles Darwin's theory on evolution was rather small and was based on natural selection of a individual.

He also picked up on the fact that the fossil record was in-complete and apparently there is a giant gap between dinosaurs, and when single cell organisms went to humans in a matter of a few thousand years. Also that scientist were trying to find the Sasquatch as it was believed to be the missing link between humans and apes?

There was a lot of stuff he said denouncing science as bogus and all that. AS i cherry picked the fun stories of the bible, he said he cherry picked it and only picked the parts that he felt applied. Which feels alot like bullshit, either follow the book or not at all. He is also divorced, which i quickly asked why his ex-wife wasn't stoned for it? Apparently the old testament rules do not apply to our present society. He dismissed the fact that i stated that the old testament rules were built for that specific society.

I'm currently coming into my adulthood, 20 in October to be more specific. Obviously quite defeated by someone who is twice my age and a little more, it was rather.... discomforting. To know that i barely know anything of what i actually believe in. So i m now on a quest, not to learn everything and prove him wrong in so many areas of religion and science, but also to gain knowledge on what i actually believe. What I'm asking for his if you guys could recommend some people or essays or anything on science related.

Things like Evolution, theories on the universe and the like. I've already taken a liking to Richard Dawkins. Obviously I'm not that advanced yet, so dumbed down versions would be nice. I know we have some people here who are pretty good at this stuff. I'd appreciate if you could help me with my en-devours, as i quiet like this topic, and also science in general.

Thanks, Scotty      

[Spartan_Marine88]

My only tips really are few but important.

1. Stay away from the fanatics from both sides of the fence, in some ways treat the general scientific community like a religion, there are alot of people who like to quote parts of it without really understanding it. From there stands most of the extremists and there use is slim to none.

2.  Same rule applies to fanatical religion followers, they rarely understand their own religion and heavily bash it.As i said in another thread, only the 10 commandments were written by god, everything else was written by man.

3. The internet is not a very good place for material as it tends to be filled with the two above.

4. Atheism is the beginning of a closed mind, as you believe from the start that something doesn't exist and thus seek to prove its non-existence which is unscientific, a scientific experiment should always be neutral and searching for the truth, by looking for the answer you will unconsciously weight your experiment and find what you were looking for, whether or not it is the truth. Instead open your self up to Agnosticism which is the accepting that whether or not a deity exists it may never be able to be proven, however this doesn't mean to stop searching by always stay searching.

5. This is a life times search, it will not be done in a week, and maybe not over your life. Rest assured either you will find a god/afterlife when you die, or your dead and in the ground and thats that, in which case it won't really matter.

[Sachaztan]

Lol that salvation army guy is completely clueless when it comes to biology and evolution in particular. Prokaryotes to humans in a few thousand years, what the fuck is that guy smoking? It's more like 2 billion years MINIMUM. And when people like that starts talking about the fossil record, fml.

Actually you know what, no one can possibly be that dumb. He was probably just fucking with you and seeing just how gullible you are. But if he said something like this with a straight face:
"scientist were trying to find the Sasquatch as it was believed to be the missing link between humans and apes"

[omgNiko]

.

[Hicks58]

Find the texts off your own back. The bible, any relevant scientific materials, etc, and read them yourself. Take in the information and pass your own judgement as to whether they have merit or not - You'll never feel satisfied with somebody else's answer.

[Sachaztan]

But on a more constructive note, higher education is your answer. And since you seem to be interested in physics and biology why don't you take a bachelor in one of those =)

[omgNiko]

.

[Unkn0wn]

Sounds like he was just bullshitting his you all the way through, with success.

Also
http://books.google.ru/books/about/The_God_Delusion.html?id=yq1xDpicghkC&redir_esc=y

Atheism is the beginning of a closed mind, as you believe from the start that something doesn't exist and thus seek to prove its non-existence which is unscientific, a scientific experiment should always be neutral and searching for the truth, by looking for the answer you will unconsciously weight your experiment and find what you were looking for, whether or not it is the truth. Instead open your self up to Agnosticism which is the accepting that whether or not a deity exists it may never be able to be proven, however this doesn't mean to stop searching by always stay searching.

To be fair, atheism is the scientific approach of the two. Since there is no way to prove God exists, we can only assume he does not. It is up to the people who claim that he exists to actually prove it. We don't let people get away with claiming things without proving them anywhere else, so I don't see why we should in regards to religion.

Also I don't think that necessarily implies you will have closed off your mind at any rate.

[omgNiko]

.

[Heartmann]

I've been working and searching for my own understandings with god during the past 11 years working with youth at camps for their confirmation for 14 days at the ages 14-15 and having week end classes tend to challenge your own views of The Lord and your own life seeig as they are in that state of mind to question everything.

And then including being one if he few outspoken believers in high school/gymnasium (ages 16-18) also put me in series of debates. This happened at uni aswell but ppl are more interested in politics and merely scoff at religion at leavel seeig as the camps are divested with such contrasts.

Anyway with all this I still don't have it figured out and probably never wil, apart of life is experience, and empirically studying life and he forces therein is the best way to find your own path^^ now you can always ask for guidance but in the end making your own mistakes and encounters is what will stick wih you the most^^

I mean look at Sach when we where younger and lived close I helped cure h of his homophobia by showing up out side his window at 4 am trying to creep into his room, worked wonders he is now as sane as any person^^


Well apart form the fact we still don't know whom sent him the meat and hacking knives set for his 16th birthday but apart from that gift he is very "normal"^^

[XIIcorps]

You can't argue with science.
You can argue about it, but not with it.

And this salvos guy sheesh some people are so blind to the truth of evolution.
Darwin may not have been 100% correct but he was fucking close, in a time where church had the final say

[Spartan_Marine88]

To be fair, atheism is the scientific approach of the two. Since there is no way to prove God exists, we can only assume he does not.

That isn't scientific. Science is to assume nothing, you do not assume that he does or doesn't exist. You would start at accepting you do not know, and work towards the answer.

Your way would be to assume that he does not and work towards proving said theory which inevitably leads you to subconsciously weight every experiment you choose to use.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

Read especially the bit about objectivity and learn to eliminate all personal bias. This is the only way science can move forward.

[PonySlaystation]

4. Atheism is the beginning of a closed mind, as you believe from the start that something doesn't exist and thus seek to prove its non-existence which is unscientific.

Any basic study of History or Anthropology will tell you that Religion and gods are created by man. Hence, there is no rational reason to believe or even contest such views. Atheism is less about believing and more about distancing yourself from superstition and myths.

When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion.

[Unkn0wn]

That isn't scientific. Science is to assume nothing, you do not assume that he does or doesn't exist. You would start at accepting you do not know, and work towards the answer.

Your way would be to assume that he does not and work towards proving said theory which inevitably leads you to subconsciously weight every experiment you choose to use.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

Read especially the bit about objectivity and learn to eliminate all personal bias. This is the only way science can move forward.

So you are saying that from a scientific point of view we are also not permitted to deny the existence of leprechauns, unicorns and yeti's? After all, since their existence has neither been proven or disproved we can only assume they MIGHT exist? Sounds batshit insane to me.

The chief characteristic which distinguishes the scientific method from other methods of acquiring knowledge is that scientists seek to let reality speak for itself,[discuss] supporting a theory when a theory's predictions are confirmed and challenging a theory when its predictions prove false.

From your own link, letting reality speak for itself implies that you can not possibly give the benefit of a doubt to any theory that has not even put forward a shred of evidence to support its claims. Religious theories have made countless predictions mind you and time and time again they have been proven false. Atheist theories have made only one assumption and so far that one assumption has only been confirmed in reality.

What a world we would live in if every unfounded claim would be treated as if it might still be a reality.

[XIIcorps]

Unicorns are Fucking real man

[nikomas]

Hey spartan, these are real I tell you, can you prove me they don't exist!?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBDCSMEQsGg
Can't can you? They exist I tell you 


Edit: No actually... those thing are probably more realistic than some sort of god when you think about it, so I guess it's a poor comparison, lol

[Sachaztan]

Did you know that he world is controlled by reptilian aliens? Well if you don't then you are closed minded for not being open to the possibility!