HEAT Rounds

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[AmPM]

What affect does the Coaxial MG Buff actually have? Does that mean it's now a real MG or is it the same shit one, with slightly more damage...shit x2 is just twice as much shit.

My other question, instead of a blanket buff, why not change it to Advanced Munitions or something similar. That way it can be equally useful on the different platforms it is supposed to support.

Basically, why is this a good T4 choice.

[nikomas]

It's basically Hvap?

What am I saying... it IS hvap, hvap is bad all of a sudden? Imagine how good this will be for the P4's.

The mg is just an extra.

[hans]

100 % suppression. so you can pin with tiger infantry now  

[nikomas]

Scratch that, it's actually BETTER than hvap.

Not only are the %'s slighty higher, but you have a double chance to do ALL crits (5%'s go to 10, 10's to 20 and so on) instead of just the rear engine one.

Panzer aces is in the same tree to, that combination might actually prove to be way to dangerous to leave it that way.

(Oh, doesn't work with some reward units yet)

[hans]

does tiger coax suppress infantry now?

[pqumsieh]

Keep in mind axis tanks will cap out on max penetration faster than allied units since allied units have weaker armor. So more of that % is actually wasted.

Not the case on all axis units, but the heavier ones for sure.

[AmPM]

Except HVAP helps the American 76mm and TD's kill my heavy Armor, Wehr has no TD's in the first place other than the Panther.

It's also a doctrine that only helps the medium armor with half of it's bonus, unless fighting something like a Pershing.

It's a poor cookie cutter design element.

[nikomas]

does tiger coax suppress infantry now?

Would two tigers suppress infantry before if they fired together? No, it's prolly not going to do that, it might help but it's highly unlikely it can do it on it's own.


While that is true PQ, a HEAT Heat heavy will skew a Panther/Tiger vs Pershing engagement quite hard in the same way that an HVAP has done before, even if that is a bit sidetracked. It's arguably a buff intended for use with Medium tanks more than the heavies, I'm not going to dispute that, but there are other doctrines to go (dual t3) if that is what you're going for, right?

At the very least, we finally have a medium tank focused wher T4, not sure we've had one of those when I've been around so I'm happy with it.




What do you mean "Only half it's bonus"? The Coax buff is a very MINOR part of the buff and it's only been applied to the AI tanks that have coax mg's.

[hans]

says coax gets 100% suppression, but does not suppress at all. NICE

[nikomas]

+100% supression...

Meaning double of what it had before

Shit * 2 = Very Mediocre

[hans]

+100% supression...

Meaning double of what it had before

Shit * 2 = Very Mediocre

how about we say its "twice as effective", instead of 100% suppression, because 100% suppression is imo suppression.

[AmPM]

Would two tigers suppress infantry before if they fired together? No, it's prolly not going to do that, it might help but it's highly unlikely it can do it on it's own.


While that is true PQ, a HEAT Heat heavy will skew a Panther/Tiger vs Pershing engagement quite hard in the same way that an HVAP has done before, even if that is a bit sidetracked. It's arguably a buff intended for use with Medium tanks more than the heavies, I'm not going to dispute that, but there are other doctrines to go (dual t3) if that is what you're going for, right?

At the very least, we finally have a medium tank focused wher T4, not sure we've had one of those when I've been around so I'm happy with it.




What do you mean "Only half it's bonus"? The Coax buff is a very MINOR part of the buff and it's only been applied to the AI tanks that have coax mg's.

Half of it's bonus, either damage or pen is useful, most don't really benefit from both, I don't even count the MG buff....

Think about how often that +Pen comes in with Tiger, Panther, etc vs the majority of enemy armored units.

Basically, the T4 is bleh for the iconic Blitz units of Tiger and STuH, mildly useful on the Panther (maybe, because it's purpose is hunting tanks and it has the range to back it up), a nice buff to STuGs, who are still easy meat for most anything even with the buff due to other reasons (herp derp, design of  Allied doctrines negates it's armor target table and makes it a weak unit) and taking it means you are focusing on using a few units that are only really effected by 1 1/2 tier choices.

Double crit change might be nice in a very few cases.

So what we have is a doctrine that only really supports 2 units, the P4, and the STuG...

[Ahnungsloser]

how about we say its "twice as effective", instead of 100% suppression, because 100% suppression is imo suppression.

That's not 100% right. +100% Suppression means that the suppression threshold of the target unit is reached in half the time. But you're right that
some infantry units with low suppression threshold values (like Engineers) will get suppressed in instant speed.

[AmPM]

I'm at work right now, someone pull the suppression value for the Coaxial MG...it doesn't do anything normally, it still won't do anything.

It's a doctrinal T4, at least make it a decent secondary buff and make it a basic LMG...

[brn4meplz]

Ignore AmPm, he just likes to complain. HEAT rounds has always been an attractive option.

[AmPM]

HEAT rounds was attractive previously as a dual t3 because you got more supporting doctrinal bonuses from other Tiers.

Or are you saying that it was broken as a T3 prior, or that the sudden increase in Coaxial MG and the minor crit bonus makes it now a T4.

[Marlboroman]

have to agree, compared to other doctrines t4s heat rounds is kind of shit, henschel design in terror for example will always be a better choice if you want good tanks.

[AmPM]

What's up Marlboro! You still in Japan or back in the States?

And Brn, taken out of context, it's not a bad T4. When compared to the usefullness and increased resource efficiency of most other T4's however, it is a terrible choice.

[nikomas]

HEAT rounds was attractive previously as a dual t3 because you got more supporting doctrinal bonuses from other Tiers.

Yeah, people took heat rounds and panzer aces, you'll still get a better heat rouns + panzer aces.

[AmPM]

And it never was a strong comptetive doctrine.

The best is still Elite armor Grens + pop buff + other bonuses, followed by LW.

It's a fun doctrine choice to go HEAT, but it's not a good doctrine choice.

Actually, right now, middle T4 and T3 are far an away the best.