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[ick312]

the Fallschirmjäger Scharfschütze is a reward unit and should stay it. Its the best sniper in the game.

the mechanized units of PE are fine, very strong, very fragile. Make PE infantry usuable, find a solution for the sticky problem and fix LATHT => take the sniper away and everything is fine.

Pool was always enough when i played PE.

PS: Fix also the "elite infantry" FJs and Flammenwerfergruppe they are not competetive vs allied elite infantry even if they attack from ambush

[TheWindCriesMary]

I agree with you about the FJ sniper being a reward unit, but  what do you mean by the "pool was always enough"?

Haven't you ever found it terribly constricting when it comes to support/vehicles (of which both typically are vehicles anyway)?

[CrazyWR]

its fairly constricting as SE for armor as well.  6 marders and 1 ist and its well past 0.

[ick312]

Haven't you ever found it terribly constricting when it comes to support/vehicles (of which both typically are vehicles anyway)?

tbh no

but if other PE player need more then just give them more pool

[tank130]

I agree with AmPm & Wind and other supporters in regards to keeping PE at it's root design.
I also agree that we are too quick to give factions missing components that just make them a mirror of the other faction design.

One problem appears to lie more in players inability or reluctance to play the faction as designed.

A second problem I see is PE suffer from the AT saturated field. Why do people have so many AT in their company? Because we can spam the shit out of vehicles and need the AT.

I think we should be reducing the availability of vehicles for other factions, resulting in less AT and PE having it's mobility advantage.


The real challenge is: How do we do any of the above? What is the correct balance of each suggestion.  Changing pool could be an option, but I think NO pool is a knee jerk reaction too far the other way.

[AmPM]

A complex issue. Im going to think on it. I work in Corporate IT so I have some spare time.

[Jodomar]

it is rather vehicle happy environment where if PE where the only ones able to spam such vehicles would go a long way into helping them out. On the other hand I'm not really for limiting available options until all we have is cookie cutter companies. I do think we can come up with a viable option for PE other then giving them support weapons which doesn't really fix the problem.

Further more, the meta-game has been quite boring and stale for a long time. Not sure how it got turned into that, but I just don't find it as fun to play anymore (why I haven't had a game in a few months). Maybe a decrease in the amount of vehicles/tanks/AT guns is due. Not sure, just want to make it fun to play again.

[nikomas]

Yeah, decreasing the amount of vehicles will surely fix everything! It's not like the most effective companies in this game are normally based around heavy/elite inf or anything /sarcasm

I'm sorry, but has it been missed how brutally effective elite inf has been in an early, non doctrinal environment? The only thing that keeps them in check is generally fuel based units and that's barely enough for some doctrines.

[aeroblade56]

Cough* OPsleaves

[AmPM]

Don't forget Rangers and AB too.

[aeroblade56]

Don't forget Rangers and AB too.

Ive never had AB get 40+ killls.

[AmPM]

I've seen AB with plenty of vehicle kills.

Lionel used to get rangers way up there to.

I've also seen BAR rifles at 30.

[tank130]

Yeah, decreasing the amount of vehicles will surely fix everything! It's not like the most effective companies in this game are normally based around heavy/elite inf or anything /sarcasm

I'm sorry, but has it been missed how brutally effective elite inf has been in an early, non doctrinal environment? The only thing that keeps them in check is generally fuel based units and that's barely enough for some doctrines.

I think that is a fair point, but you have not addressed why it is necessary to so much AT in your company. You have to admit that often there is a metric shit ton of AT on the field. Why is this so necessary?

Are Elite infantry so OP that we must spam a ton of vehicles to counter, resulting in a ton of AT that is making almost an entire faction useless? Or are we over stating Elite infantry?

[Hicks58]

I find it kinda interesting that we've got people wanting vehicles limited in certain factions, yet we've got people who want pool limits removed entirely.

Pretty sure one of the first things I'd do without pool cap is make my old 21 Greyhound company ride again.

Hm.

[Groundfire]

You know what might work? Reducing overall fuel for all companies by 20% than giving all PE fuel units a %20 decrease in fuel cost so they wont be hit by the loss as hard.

Then you reduce the amount of fuel units for all other 3 factions but not PE.

And im all for keeping PE as the mobile hard hitting glass cannon, but to do that we must make mechanized companies viable. That's the problem that must be solved. To do that, we should probably increase the synergy with PE infantry and their vehicles. I could see "Group Zeal" come back in some capacity, but reworked to function between infantry and vehicles, not just infantry to infantry.

Kinda like how we brought back zeal for Terror, but it's only generated by tanks and KCH.

[I2ay]

While you're at it, could you just remove all vehicles for all factions aside from PE? That'd be great.

[Spartan_Marine88]

[AmPM]

I think that is a fair point, but you have not addressed why it is necessary to so much AT in your company. You have to admit that often there is a metric shit ton of AT on the field. Why is this so necessary?

Are Elite infantry so OP that we must spam a ton of vehicles to counter, resulting in a ton of AT that is making almost an entire faction useless? Or are we over stating Elite infantry?

For factions that don't focus on Elite Infantry, yes, vehicles are the counter. Vehicles also can counter vehicles.

So to counter that you need vehicles and/or AT assets.

I was thinking about it, upping the pool costs on Elite Infantry doesn't solve the problem completely, it just makes doctrines that buff infantry better. What I was thinking, was attaching a Support pool cost to weapon upgrades for units. Meaning, tons of BARs, MP40's, Schreks, etc means reduced ATG/Mortar/HMG/Sniper etc. I would not have Use based upgrades cost support pool. So Fausts, Grenades, Stickies, etc. would only affect Infantry pool or nothing.

You might see an increase in Sticky and Faust use, but those are both easily avoided and kited, and require a fair gap in competence to pull off well.

This would all force a choice, and that is always a good thing. Then we just need to figure out the right pool values for vehicles after this changes. May or may not be necessary, because you would see more Armor vs Armor action being a decent counter that is not pulling from your Support pool.

I probably missed something, it's a rough idea.

[Jodomar]

For factions that don't focus on Elite Infantry, yes, vehicles are the counter. Vehicles also can counter vehicles.

So to counter that you need vehicles and/or AT assets.

I was thinking about it, upping the pool costs on Elite Infantry doesn't solve the problem completely, it just makes doctrines that buff infantry better. What I was thinking, was attaching a Support pool cost to weapon upgrades for units. Meaning, tons of BARs, MP40's, Schreks, etc means reduced ATG/Mortar/HMG/Sniper etc. I would not have Use based upgrades cost support pool. So Fausts, Grenades, Stickies, etc. would only affect Infantry pool or nothing.

You might see an increase in Sticky and Faust use, but those are both easily avoided and kited, and require a fair gap in competence to pull off well.

This would all force a choice, and that is always a good thing. Then we just need to figure out the right pool values for vehicles after this changes. May or may not be necessary, because you would see more Armor vs Armor action being a decent counter that is not pulling from your Support pool.

I probably missed something, it's a rough idea.

So basically what your saying is if you take bazookas on rangers it pulls from your ability to spam AT guns?

[NightRain]

ATG spam is and will always be there, esp now that majority of Axis carries super heavies in forms of Reward units. There is always one choice to hardcap ATGs but that is a bit too radical. PE Sniper should provide to be a good counter against elite infantry but yeah.

Unless PE Infantry gets buffed in some form, it won't be able to stand up versus majority of things.