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[AmPM]

So basically what your saying is if you take bazookas on rangers it pulls from your ability to spam AT guns?

More like it means if you want to have zook rangers AND ATGs you will have to sacrifice HMGs, Mortars, Howi, Sniper, etc.

Specialize or generalize, but no longer both. Also means you might have to work with your teammates.

[aeroblade56]

Allies bring a metric fuck ton of ATG for a good reason.

its called Axis super heavies.

KT,Jagdtiger,jagdpanther,maus,elefant,

where as allies you have. super pershing?.

[XIIcorps]

Allies bring a metric fuck ton of ATG for a good reason.

its called Axis super heavies.

KT,Jagdtiger,jagdpanther,maus,elefant,

where as allies you have. super pershing?.

Exactly if there's a chance im facing terror or tank busters, ill instinctively take more at just incase there's a KT or JP.

this scenario is now exasperated with reward tanks

[ick312]

Yeah, decreasing the amount of vehicles will surely fix everything! It's not like the most effective companies in this game are normally based around heavy/elite inf or anything /sarcasm

I'm sorry, but has it been missed how brutally effective elite inf has been in an early, non doctrinal environment? The only thing that keeps them in check is generally fuel based units and that's barely enough for some doctrines.

allies need to use snipers again. but yes elite grens are insanely strong, think that is justified cause its a reward unit

You know what might work? Reducing overall fuel for all companies by 20% than giving all PE fuel units a %20 decrease in fuel cost so they wont be hit by the loss as hard.

Then you reduce the amount of fuel units for all other 3 factions but not PE.

And im all for keeping PE as the mobile hard hitting glass cannon, but to do that we must make mechanized companies viable. That's the problem that must be solved. To do that, we should probably increase the synergy with PE infantry and their vehicles. I could see "Group Zeal" come back in some capacity, but reworked to function between infantry and vehicles, not just infantry to infantry.

Kinda like how we brought back zeal for Terror, but it's only generated by tanks and KCH.

^actually a very good reflection of PE (fast glass cannons) and i like both of your ideas: the fuel reduction and the "group" zeal.
maybe it should be between tanks and infantry or a command LV should give it to infantry and another commando vehicle is for buffing tanks.

Allies bring a metric fuck ton of ATG for a good reason.

its called Axis super heavies.

KT,Jagdtiger,jagdpanther,maus,elefant,

where as allies you have. super pershing?.

you summerize the whole problem of allies and how they play quite well. Allies got used to fight tanks without stickies, and thats the issue a heavy tank can be fought with atgs and handheld at. You dont need anymore stickies.
As soon as a Heavy tank enters the field, the game is over. Halftrack + sticky = GG the thing why some allied players are not anymore doing it is because they got used to charge frontally and with the HT u usually need to flank. A heavy with a damaged engine ends every game.

[NightRain]

Give PE PzGrens Stormtrooper_Kar98s and leave that G43 in. You get ultimate firing squad. Watch if someone dares to complain about PEgren effectiveness afterwards.


Also lowering pool value of certain units (IHT COUGH) to a more appropriate would also bring a good way of buff to poor PE.

Magnetic AT nades as a standard unlock? PE Stickies people.

Medkits available? Maybe?

[CrazyWR]

For factions that don't focus on Elite Infantry, yes, vehicles are the counter. Vehicles also can counter vehicles.

So to counter that you need vehicles and/or AT assets.

I was thinking about it, upping the pool costs on Elite Infantry doesn't solve the problem completely, it just makes doctrines that buff infantry better. What I was thinking, was attaching a Support pool cost to weapon upgrades for units. Meaning, tons of BARs, MP40's, Schreks, etc means reduced ATG/Mortar/HMG/Sniper etc. I would not have Use based upgrades cost support pool. So Fausts, Grenades, Stickies, etc. would only affect Infantry pool or nothing.

You might see an increase in Sticky and Faust use, but those are both easily avoided and kited, and require a fair gap in competence to pull off well.

This would all force a choice, and that is always a good thing. Then we just need to figure out the right pool values for vehicles after this changes. May or may not be necessary, because you would see more Armor vs Armor action being a decent counter that is not pulling from your Support pool.

I probably missed something, it's a rough idea.

they tried this, it was called weapon cache.  Never again.

[CrazyWR]

You know what might work? Reducing overall fuel for all companies by 20% than giving all PE fuel units a %20 decrease in fuel cost so they wont be hit by the loss as hard.

Then you reduce the amount of fuel units for all other 3 factions but not PE.

And im all for keeping PE as the mobile hard hitting glass cannon, but to do that we must make mechanized companies viable. That's the problem that must be solved. To do that, we should probably increase the synergy with PE infantry and their vehicles. I could see "Group Zeal" come back in some capacity, but reworked to function between infantry and vehicles, not just infantry to infantry.

Kinda like how we brought back zeal for Terror, but it's only generated by tanks and KCH.

reducing vehicles is not the answer.  Reducing fuel just screws over armor doctrine/RE/Blitz/PE while at the same time buffing every infantry based doctrine.  I can't agree with this switch.

Is there some reason you can't just remove pool ONLY for PE?  And if so, why not look into the OMG pool/resource cache system.  I know you are loathe to look to OMG for ideas due to vast differences in ideas, but I have to say their system is a nice compromise between allowing spam and yet making it difficult to maintain. 

[CrazyWR]

Give PE PzGrens Stormtrooper_Kar98s and leave that G43 in. You get ultimate firing squad. Watch if someone dares to complain about PEgren effectiveness afterwards.


Also lowering pool value of certain units (IHT COUGH) to a more appropriate would also bring a good way of buff to poor PE.

Magnetic AT nades as a standard unlock? PE Stickies people.

Medkits available? Maybe?

The first two ideas could go a long way.

[TheVolskinator]

What? What cometh over yonder hills?! Avast! It be quad IHTs with Shrecks and Stormtrooper Kar98ks! Flee! Flee in terror! D: D: D:

[nikomas]

Stormtrooper Kar98's + the G43... You want to make them BETTER than regular grens with the option of buying at grenades and sprint, are you mad?

[TheVolskinator]

I dont. NightRain does.

[NightRain]

You do know that stormtrooper_kar98s are exactly the same ones that the WM Grenadiers use? Of course I'd suggest that.

You have 1 rifle which is arguably the games best rifle, IN addition you have 3 rifles that are classed as SECOND BEST rifles. You have access to sprint with extra manpower cost, you do not have any suitable handgrenade, non-doctrine healing and a AT grenade that is the hardest grenade to pull off.

Though I do want to ask. What is the difference of having 1x G43 + 3x Kar98s or 4x G43s?

It would make PE Grens deadly, worthy and feared, currently they are just 4 man volksgrenadiers.

[skaffa]

Muni HT aura to buff inf is too annoying on a vehicle, make a regular officer squad for this.

[PonySlaystation]

Muni HT aura to buff inf is too annoying on a vehicle, make a regular officer squad for this.

Exactly this, it's too clumsy to be useful and gets shot down by AT guns.

[CrazyWR]

Muni HT aura to buff inf is too annoying on a vehicle, make a regular officer squad for this.

this is the kind of thing I'm against.  Simpy because its not ezmode new units are created...

[Hicks58]

FYI, giving PzGrens Grenadier Kar98k's would essentially make the G43 upgrade package pointless, except for it's suppressive ability. There WOULD be a DPS increase, but against Allied infantry you'd barely notice unless you were going up against some hardcore Ranger spam. Even then it'd be more cost efficient to just go with Incendiary grenades to deny them cover and make sure you only ever engage them if you're in cover yourself. God help them if you bring a muni HT along for the ride.

I could see PzGrens being worth 255 MP with sprint and the 1 G43/3 Kar98k's. 215 MP for the 1 G43/3 Kar98k's without sprint would be nuts though.

I've always said that PzGrens as a base platform are performing fine for their cost at 215 MP. They've got the survivability of Grenadiers without their offensive power, which their price reflects (25 MP cheaper than Grenadiers). It's the Sprint upgrade that throws their MP cost out of whack, as it gives no tangible combat increase while you're paying more than Grenadier costs.

[PonySlaystation]

this is the kind of thing I'm against. Simpy because its not ezmode new units are created...

It's not about the difficulty, it's an inherently flawed and broken design that causes balance issues. Panzer Elite have infantry and lightly armored vehicles, an officer would fall under the infantry and not vehicle category. It's just like with their grenades, how are they supposed to compete with other factions when their grenades cannot kill infantry or support weapons?

[NightRain]

PzGrens as a base are far weaker than grenadiers due to lack of non-doctrine healing. Grenadiers have Medkits which essencially boosts their Defencive without reducing their offence.

[CrazyWR]

It's not about the difficulty, it's an inherently flawed and broken design that causes balance issues. Panzer Elite have infantry and lightly armored vehicles, an officer would fall under the infantry and not vehicle category. It's just like with their grenades, how are they supposed to compete with other factions when their grenades cannot kill infantry or support weapons?

the grenades work fine for me, perhaps you're doing it wrong.  as for the vehicle, maybe dont just run it out in front of at guns?  if its really a serious problem, convince the balance team to give muni hts phase armor to slightly increase the survivability...

[tank130]

<snip>......... I know you are loathe to look to OMG for ideas due to vast differences in ideas, but I have to say their system is a nice compromise between allowing spam and yet making it difficult to maintain. 

We never loath at looking to OMG. I don't think you can take one little piece of their mod and throw it into ours with out adjusting everything else it is connected to.

I have a question though - if their systems are so much better, why is everyone over here playing and their mod is basically over? I find it very difficult to look to a dead mod for inspiration for one that is doing reasonably well.

I am not bashing OMG, I am questioning your inspiration source?