[CW] Bren Munition Price.

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[NightRain]

Here we are again, long ago after the devious bren button was thankfully nerfed into oblivion. Another bren lmg discussion.

For 75 munitions a British Tommy squad gets access to two LMGs with a much weaker but still operational disable. This amble firepower addition is the only thing British can get their hands on when it comes to Tommies, well aside of Rifle grenades. Here lays the issue:

Bren LMGs are too, cheap.

75 Munitions. Why is it too cheap? It is not that the weapon is superiorly powerful but it is slightly unnerving because it is the second viable option for British infantry (aside of rifle nades) without doctrine unlocks. Any British doctrine will have brens and why would they not? It is quite cheap. The only doctrine I can forsee being a munition dump is Commandos, and even they suffer more of manpower issues than munition.

I'm suggesting that bren weapon price should be upped up to 80 and at tops 85.

[XIIcorps]

After reading your whole post I still can't find a reason for your wanted muni increase on a weapon that short of its button ability is mediocre at best.

WM get access to the mg 42 which is rather powerful and can suppress
Americans get access to the bar which has the suppress ability
PE get access to g43 which also has a suppress ability

I've never seen a squad suppressed by brens.

Brens are perfectly fine at 75mu for 2 lmgs that add little dps to a squad, when they hit.

[NightRain]

Why are you bringing in Suppression abilities especially in form of a support weapon from Axis side?

It is not a small DPS increase to a British tommy squad, it is a pretty reasonable increase to the squad for being such a cheap weapon. Current bren is 37.5 munitions per weapon. It can tackle any soft-target and can still prevent vehicle rushes with its button ability.

[XIIcorps]

I was referring to the grens upgrade.

Granted you could break the muni cost down like that, but let's be honest brens are rubbish without a lt.
So you might as well plus on the 230mp and 45mu cost onto the bren.

And as for button in its current state, its all but useless. Most vehicles just drive out of it or those with crush squash the now immobile squad breaking button.

And button is only good to use of you have at around so might as well plus on the pop and cost of either an atg or piats for brens cost.

Really man if the cost of brens goes up, brits are going to have a bad time.

[Smokaz]

Meh

[nikomas]

LMG42 can suppress? Me and my corsix friend have trouble agreeing with that statement...

tbfh, I'm pretty sure a riflesquad has better suppression with their combined garands than the LMG42 "Machinegun" has.

[XIIcorps]

LMG42 can suppress? Me and my corsix friend have trouble agreeing with that statement...

tbfh, I'm pretty sure a riflesquad has better suppression with their combined garands than the LMG42 "Machinegun" has.

Ok maybe it was an ability that gave them suppression.
My bad but can we focus on the moronic idea at hand.

An increase to the bren lmg cost which I'm still yet to see validation for other then " in my opinion its too cheap".

[PonySlaystation]

Weapon upgrades should be priced according to DPS value, durability of the squad and additional abilities.

[NightRain]

Weapon upgrades should be priced according to DPS value, durability of the squad and additional abilities.

As a base Bren has

  | Zaxis S DPS = 11.14
  | Zaxis M DPS = 5.95
  | Zaxis L DPS = 2.39

Infantry armor will reduce damage by 25% due to value being 0.75.
Elite Armor drops Bren accuracy by 25% and damage as well.

As a base Bren's damage output is not great, but its not bad either.


The reason I started this thread is mostly due to it being cheap at 75 munitions. It comes with a platform that can be considered as the best platform in the game. You have 5 men with soldier armor and 65 hp. Essencially the soldier armor means that these guys have more health due to reduced damage taken by small arms fire. Give in bren at 75 munitions they can stand their ground for surprisingly long and take a beating and still survive.

Button.

While it is not what it USED to be (horribly broken) it is currently different. It currently works on time based effect. The longer the vehicle is enduring button effect, the better the button grows. It is not automatic vehicle disabler like it used to be, it is now timed disabler. If enemy  decides to stick with the pursue or charge, they will eventually be stuck in tough spot due to their mobility decrease and sight disable. This does mean that charging a british anti tank guns is not recommended due to button being in effect. Add in the sturdy platform they have and you have a unit capable of preventing rushes and stand their ground versus infantry.

All this: For 215 manpower and 75 munitions and 5 pop. No other unit at such price is capable to perform the same. Riflemen with sticky bombs and bars can but that is such a investment that it is through the roof. 200 manpower and 150 munitions at 5 pop.

[PonySlaystation]

You have to compare the stats with other upgrades in the same category.

[CrazyWR]

I would agree with this, was never sure why the price was dropped to 75 in the first place...

[Spartan_Marine88]

LMG42 can suppress? Me and my corsix friend have trouble agreeing with that statement...

LMG suppression

d:0.0015
l:0.0015
m:0.003
s:0.006

pulled from corsix

compare the Brens suppression stats

d: 0.0005
l: 0.0005
m: 0.001
s: 0.001

further compare that with the HMG 42

d: 0.0125
l: 0.0125
m: 0.015
s: 0.015

lets also remember that the lmg 42 has an extra 5 range on the bren and nearly double the rate of fire

[AmPM]

Spartan, plz suppress infantry with an LMG.

[Spartan_Marine88]

Spartan, plz suppress infantry with an LMG.

maybe i find advantages in KEEPING something suppressed.

[Hicks58]

You need a pair of LMG42's to suppress competently.

Also, Brens are pretty trash without a Lt. nearby. That is then a pretty heavy amount of AI pop/resources being dedicated, especially considering most Bren squads get ran in pairs.

You've also got to take into account the weapons being paired with the Brens. Enfields, which are pretty much one of the most terrible rifles in the game, besides the Carbine.

LMG42's have 3 Grenadier Kar's, BAR's have 4 Garands (Which are actually pretty decent) whilst G43's just make up the bulk of the squad (3 G43's). The Tommies are left with 3 Enfields to support the two Brens. That's mediocre with mediocre. If you've got a Lt. with the Brens, chances are they'll have a third squad or a support weapon (For the equal price/pop investment) which all around ends badly.

[rolcsika0128]

Speedy, I understand that you've been playing brits lately, but believe me that no axis player has any problem with bren lmgs... they are decent, but definitely not an issue. There are more important things to deal with ( ab mortar, stuka, etc) , let's just not waste the dev team's time on such tiny matters.

[NightRain]

Personally, I do believe it is far too cheap with the current ammount of munitions. If I am capable of fielding sufficient ammount of anti tank and still have every tommy equipped with a bren, it kinda starts to feel odd. Esp with the button being there. It isn't that bad of a weapon all in all though.

[XIIcorps]

Personally, I do believe it is far too cheap with the current ammount of munitions. If I am capable of fielding sufficient ammount of anti tank and still have every tommy equipped with a bren, it kinda starts to feel odd. Esp with the button being there. It isn't that bad of a weapon all in all though.

Sufficient AT brits doesn't even cost mu, 2x FF and your set.
And if your equipping every Tommy squad with brens your obviously cutting corners else where with upgrades.

[NightRain]

Sufficient AT brits doesn't even cost mu, 2x FF and your set.
And if your equipping every Tommy squad with brens your obviously cutting corners else where with upgrades.

While it sounds true that I would be cutting corners, I'm really not. I had shit tons of excess munitions that I had to take 4 bloody CCS to spend all of it.  Currently British have over 2000 munitions to spend due to warmap. It also has to do with the fact that 75 munitions for a weapon that can perform 2 roles. Disabler and anti-infantry.

[Mysthalin]

Don't you think it might have more to do with the fact the Brits can not purchase grenades, fausts, stickies and other "cheap" use-based upgrades on their mainline infantry that tends to quickly eat up munitions when used in larger numbers? Given the choice only between brens and riflenades on your mainline infantry - you're going to end up with a lot of brens or CCS's very easily.

The lack of AP rounds is also another 200 munitions to be used "freely".