[CW] M7 Priest vs 25Pdr

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[NightRain]

I'll start this thread by saying that I'm a retarded Artillery spammer I like artillery and that is why I'm playing RCA even if it is not implemented. Now lets get to the point.

First Look at this Image:



Now look at this image:



The reason I choose to compare these two is only in Royal Canadian Artillery doctorine. I will not take into account Royal Engineers or Royal Commandos.
-Why RCA only? Because RCA has ability that RSE or Commandos don't. The Creeping Barrage.


Now lets compare 25 Pdr and M7 Priest. 25 Pdr costs 0 PPs, it is free from the beginning. Priest is a Tier 3 unlock thus requires 75pp and 3 points to be invested.

Now lets compare them in game.

25 Pdr costs only 7 Pop to field. Due to creeping it has very GOOD range and you can build it quite far and still fire what you want it to fire. Although it may be fragile but its cheap pop allows you to field up units in front of it. It is easy to counter arty, but try to get in range to counter arty it- so far with all experience I've had with 25 pdrs I must say that only a Hummel can defeat it IF it has Incidiary barrage (it can fire from its spawn to destroy 25 pdr) It only requires 2 direct hits or 1 direct hit and 2 others around it to destroy a 25 emplacement. It is damn fragile thing but that's no issue as it is rare for anything to get through the front lines to kill it (other than stormtroopers)

M7 Priest costs 10 pop to field up. Due to creeping and mobility it has unlimited range depending on the battlefield status. (In your spawn or in Enemy spawn). It has minor defence due to the .50 cal machinegun on it. It has somewhat good armor so that it is nearly immune to small arms fire. It is easy to keep safe since it can sit in its spawn and come out only to shoot. However it is eating 10 pop from your army at the same time. At Max you can have 30 pop worth of units on the field.


Now I ask from everyone.

Check the prices of these two units.

25 Pdr. 360 Manpowers 80 Mun (creeping) and 120 Fuel, 7 pop, 9 pool value.

M7 Priest. 465 Manpowers 80+60 mun (creeping +repair which is optional) and 300 fuel, 10 pop, 24 pool value.

M7 Priest nearly costs 3 25 Pdrs FUELWISE leaving only a 60 fuel Difference. M7 Priest costs almost as much as a Firefly, (320 fuel) and it still does the exact same result as 25 pdr would.

Their only Difference IS: Mobility and light Defence

Does this Justify the fact that a Tier 3 unlock that performs exactly same as a emplacement cost 2.5x More resources? + It is a Tier 3 Unlock

While people would say: "Don't get it then?" Isn't that same like saying "Remove the unit itself completely"?

Plus for 1 Priest on field you could field 2x 25 Pdrs and their only difference would be 4 pop and I think that 2 barrels easily defeats one single barrel.

I suggest a change on Priest's Price. It is way too costy for a unit that performs as good as a 2x Cheaper unit does.

Before you say anything. I will not take into account ANY DOCTORINE abilities. It is just Unit vs Unit thing in price and honestly, these two units perform the same.

Look into it Dev team. Mobile Artillery price either goes down or immobile artillery price goes up, their current price difference in terms of pool, pop, resources is out of the whack.

[terrapinsrock]

Yea, I never did understand why the Priest cost so much fuel and MP.

It was always cheaper just to grab 3 25's for that price, get supercharged rounds and Creeping and watch them evaporate any Axis units they hit. Then, you could even get two Fireflies if you wanted to kill armor.

[aeroblade56]

Should make the priest fire airburst rounds 

[AmPM]

Hummel should have Airburst Napalm (Fuel Air) rounds.

[PonySlaystation]

It's not the Priest that's too expensive, it's the 25pdr that's too cheap.

[Marlboroman]

What pony said, 25er is too cheap, atm without creeping it costs less Than nebel.

[NightRain]

Maybe a bit too cheap.

[Tymathee]

you may have ruined the 25 pounder with this thread, good job! now they'll probably raise the price as all mobile arty costs about the priest price and the inf howie, which is more frag than the 25 costs more in fuel.

So good goin "clap"

Let me interject that if this does happen, make it only with RCA because they get supercharge, with the other 2 docs, the 25 sux cuz of its short range.

[XIIcorps]

So people over look the fact that brits build their emplacements and are extremely vulnerable while doing so.

And honestly the 25 pdr for mandos and RE is fine, its needed to break axis fronts eeing as axis arty units almost exclusively outrange allied

[nikomas]

Yeah, my commando and RE companies need the howitzer so bad that I literally never put any of them in either. It's not "required" in any way, shape or form for those doctrines. They all have their own tools for breaking lines and there are more and better ways to counter arty than with your own arty.

Personally I agree with some of the above, the commonwealth howitzer is cheap for what it does.

[Marlboroman]

Yeah, my commando and RE companies need the howitzer so bad that I literally never put any of them in either. It's not "required" in any way, shape or form for those doctrines. They all have their own tools for breaking lines and there are more and better ways to counter arty than with your own arty.

Personally I agree with some of the above, the commonwealth howitzer is cheap for what it does.

Its very cheap for What it does, but in turn You cant increase the cost of 25er without increasing howitzer price, since ami howitzer is better, id say 25er around 150 fuel and ami around 160-170 is pretty reasonable, as i dont think any artillery piece That fires 105 shells should be cheaper Than the nebel, Even with the recent buffs.

[aeroblade56]

Isn't the range very limited on the 25 without the RCA buffs?.

[Marlboroman]

Yeah but it still fires about half the map and it fires 105 shells which will gib any axis infantry it lands on.

[XIIcorps]

Half of the map ? Maybe on semois

To cover half of the map the non RCA 25 pdr has to be on the front lines pretty well at the middle of the map, thus its in danger if lines are broken and ground is lost.

As opposed to the American howi which can be built at spawn still be effective and iirc can move

[CrazyWR]

it can only move if you choose bottom t4 for infantry.  Otherwise it is quite stationary

[NightRain]

People, do not get side tracked

The reason I choose to compare these two is only in Royal Canadian Artillery doctorine. I will not take into account Royal Engineers or Royal Commandos.
-Why RCA only? Because RCA has ability that RSE or Commandos don't. The Creeping Barrage.

This is precise reason the 25Pdr is too cheap in RCA. It gets this ability and this is one of the most powerful artillery abilities in the whole EIRR.

[PonySlaystation]

The fact that you can get creeping barrage on the 25pdr is probably the biggest issue, the price and pop of the 25pdr is based on the effectiveness of the regular barrage, not the creeping barrage. It would be kind of like if the hotchkiss stuka could fire hummel incendiary barrages, then what the hell is the hummel for?

If the price or pop or effectiveness of creeping barrage needs balancing, then that's a different issue, the issue here is that if you can buy creeping barrage on the 25pdr then that makes the priest obsolete.

[NightRain]

The fact that you can get creeping barrage on the 25pdr is probably the biggest issue, the price and pop of the 25pdr is based on the effectiveness of the regular barrage, not the creeping barrage. It would be kind of like if the hotchkiss stuka could fire hummel incendiary barrages, then what the hell is the hummel for?

If the price or pop or effectiveness of creeping barrage needs balancing, then that's a different issue, the issue here is that if you can buy creeping barrage on the 25pdr then that makes the priest obsolete.

It is true, creeping barrage on a cheap platform of 25Pdr makes M7 Priest obsolete. In other terms also the cheapness of 25Pdr makes M7 Priest obsolete as well. There is not enough attration to take Priest over 25Pdr. Priest costs ridicilous ammounts of everything and offers nothing in return. What can Priest do what 25Pdr can't? Add in creeping barrage and M7 Priest becomes the most obsolete unit in the game.

[XIIcorps]

Priest should get Airburst barrage on a shared cooldown with creeping.
Just to give it a reason for existance.

[NightRain]

Priest should get Airburst barrage on a shared cooldown with creeping.
Just to give it a reason for existance.

Hmm which one would I use? Creeping barrage or a airburst barrage...hmm hmm. No.

Simple airburst barrage wont justify 3x cost difference between the two and it most certainly will not improve priest at all