eirr is dying

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[MissileJoe]

gimme a mint

[fldash]

gimme a mint

Take your time.  I won't listen to feedback that just says something is bad without providing alternatives or ways to fix it.  Thanks.

[nikomas]

Oh ampm, trust me, you're not the only one who wants that

[MissileJoe]

AS for pool and resources.
It just forces you to build the same stuff over and over again.
Just get rid of pool for good.
And as for bland doctrines.
Nearly every doc got this reduce deployment timer etc, too much mirroring.(just an example)
And , way more important, half the stuff isnt working ( airborne, useless crap like henshel design)
Back to bland: Simply go more extreme on all t4s
U wanna feel the t4 not just like , hey was that a lucky shot or my damn unlock.

[AmPM]

Oh I know.

Anything that allows people to continue self directed company development would be good, levels of upgrades (Firestorm, Improved Firestorm, OMGWTFBBQ Firestorm), levels and branching veterancy, customization of Pool Values, whatever.

Hell, you could make companies have branching XP trees with various levels of abilities pretty easily. Super tough Riflemen? Allied Grit III. Would also allow removal of "tiers" in favor of level restrictions based on the ability. Tank Reapers I might be a level 3 ability, but Tank Reapers IV could be a level 8 ability. Whatever. This also allows smaller bonuses with each level of improvement. HEAT I might just be +7.5% damage and +10% Pen.

Pool and resources could be modified by purchasing things with XP as well. Want to change your Armor pool into Vehicle pool? Buy an upgrade to your company -20 Armor Pool +30 Vehicle Pool (random numbers used).

There are tons of way to add ongoing development with more player freedom of choice. Also adds some sweet sweet variation.

[MissileJoe]

And just make everything working to begin with.

[MissileJoe]

Also im pretty sure that pool stems from past TLS, pre-TLS2 aera where salan tried to force certain coys to be buiild . Nice idea back then. But as far as it went u cant build an Ab coy nor cant u bild a tank coy , u can only build half assed shit.

[nikomas]

Uhm, wth Joe, you sure as hell can build tank coys in almost all doctrines, are you high?

You'll run out of FUEL, not POOL.

[MissileJoe]

Im running out tank pool with airborne tbh

[MissileJoe]

Also im talking bout german steel coys with ,jk, german steel , crazy abourne ranger blitzkrieg, stuff , 50 rifles etc.
I hate being stuck with with 500 mp and munitions
Not the generic 3 foos and gg shit.
Nevermind im sure ull bring coh2 to a new level .
No offense but eir got dumbed down it aint even funny.

[MorkaandBorka]

Whats the point?  Why even bother anymore really? 

Eir hit its peak at a point and it got dumbed down constantly by too many updates all the time and so many different people working on it. 

Relax and just play occasionally i guess.

[tank130]

I like some of the ideas coming out of here. HOw would you guys handle new players joining the community? If EiR:R has proven anything, it is that it will not survive with a small elitist type community. We lost hundreds of new players due to massive stomps, accessibility, and prior to the warmap, a massive distance between new players and seasoned players.

My concern is, if the top players have all these massive buffs that AMPM has suggested, how does any new player even stand a remote chance in hell of playing? I would really like to see some input from you guys on how to handle that.

 Doctrines suck in EiR:R because they are free. It's that simple. You can't give away powerful abilities for free - it would just be stupid. That is something that has already been changed in EiR2. All doctrine abilities will have a resource cost. This way they can be more creative and more powerful.

We are also eliminating doctrine trees. There will no longer be predetermined tiers. You will be able to mix and match all you want. Some abilities may only be available to certain doctrines, but that is pretty much a no brainier.

[Smokaz]

EIRR2 will be great. Looking forward to it.


Free doctrine abilities was pointed out as a  flaw by both insiders and outsiders a long time ago.

EIR lived for a long time, in fact a lot of people grew and moved on while the project happened.

There's no defeat here, just some old conflicts that we can let die or move on from.

Long live the people who enabled EIR - long live EIR2, it's (hopefully) educated successor.

Good job all contributors.

[Smokaz]

Additionally, EIRR always had some dead periods and you can't expect it to last forever. Tank saved the mod by helping out che , and we had a lot of good times. His enthusiasm for this product will hopefully be rewarded with him helping lead the next similar mod. While It's been a long time since ive talked to him nobody can really detract from what he's done. Hopefully enthusiastic souls will keep EIRR2 running for 6 years as well !

[hans]

I like some of the ideas coming out of here. HOw would you guys handle new players joining the community? If EiR:R has proven anything, it is that it will not survive with a small elitist type community. We lost hundreds of new players due to massive stomps, accessibility, and prior to the warmap, a massive distance between new players and seasoned players.

My concern is, if the top players have all these massive buffs that AMPM has suggested, how does any new player even stand a remote chance in hell of playing? I would really like to see some input from you guys on how to handle that.

 Doctrines suck in EiR:R because they are free. It's that simple. You can't give away powerful abilities for free - it would just be stupid. That is something that has already been changed in EiR2. All doctrine abilities will have a resource cost. This way they can be more creative and more powerful.

We are also eliminating doctrine trees. There will no longer be predetermined tiers. You will be able to mix and match all you want. Some abilities may only be available to certain doctrines, but that is pretty much a no brainier.

 

Its all about how you reward it. One point for me was that you always got rewarded more if you play against new players. Reward helping and playing with new players.

Give new players advantages. I think about more pool, more ressources and easier gainef veterancy.   

 We have to build a system around new players. In eirr it was implemented as a small part. New players had a few tutorials, the rest was for older eirr players. Eirr forum is full of only old veteran players.

make a ranking list for new players, best new player of the week announcements.

 be continued...

[Unkn0wn]

This is the best thread we've had in quite a while, keep at it boys

You should not even start to make a coh2 eirr2 mod, the game look like shit, feels like shit and is boring as hell.

As much as I agree that COH 2 feels wonky, I think EIR 2 will probably end up feeling VERY similar to EIR 1. (Which is exactly what we are going for)
More importantly for us though, it allows for a fresh start one we have been in dire need of for a long time. Not only are we all once again 'on the ball' in terms of development, we are also much better organised.  In many ways, EIR 1 was a learning school and we are determined to do a lot of things better and avoid making the same mistakes we made here.

Some thoughts on what has been said
- Gamemodes are definitely on the list of things we want to offer much more choice in. With how COH 2's sector system works I would imagine 'objective' style maps will become the new norm (Only certain vital points on the map are cappable). We also plan to look into a way to make 1vs1s viable, perhaps through a seperate gamemode.

- Doctrines, as has been mentioned, will have a cost attached to them and no tiering. This will allow us to focus only on significant abilities that players will want to pick up. Without the power of said abilities ruining balance. (So no more bland 1/2 of the doctrine having % stat buffs) Heck, we even want to try and do away with stat % buffs entirely.

- We want veterancy to be more meaningful, but at the same time increase its vulnerability so users would have a much harder time building up and maintaining entire companies existing of high vet units. Retreat modifiers are a big one in this and probably something we will consider toning down. We still need to delve into the specifics but vet choices are very much on the table.

- Availability, some players have mentioned this kills company customisation. Would definitely like to hear some more thoughts on this. How can we improve our current system? Or if not with our current system, how do we combat excesses while style giving the average player a good sense of customisation.

Also, like tank mentioned, in all of the above and beyond we need to prioritize new player accessibility. It's reasonable to assume that, at least initially, the EIR 2 community won't be very big, so matchmaking and the like is probably not do-able.

[CrazyWR]

 


Give new players advantages. I think about more pool, more ressources and easier gainef veterancy.   

the problem (as always) is how to differentiate between new players and established smurfs.

[GORKHALI]

they disable the game from modding so how can u guys bring out EIR 2 ?

[EIRRMod]

they disable the game from modding so how can u guys bring out EIR 2 ?

Magic fairy dust.

[acker]

It's FL!

Onto stuff...

the problem (as always) is how to differentiate between new players and established smurfs.

Dunno. We could always take the general F2P approach of creating an unskippable long tutorial for anyone who makes a new account. Useful for noobs, wall-bangingly exasperating for smurfers.