[US] M10 vs M18

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[Dauntless07]

The latest update reserves the cloak ability for vet 1 troops only with the exception of FJ and Snipers. My question is; is there any reason to use an M18 if it can't cloak?

The M18 is now expensive for what? Marginally better armor and slower speed? It's not like it's going to be standing up to Panthers anyway, so is there a point to pay more without cloak? I guess the M18 can equip an MG, as if that makes a difference. Lowering the fuel cost (slightly) really didn't make a difference for any non-Armor companies because manpower and munitions are obviously the more useful resources for typical companies.

The M10 on the other hand seems a lot more capable of avoiding taking damage all together with its speed, and I read it has better penetration (vCoH) on the CoH wiki. On top of this, it's cheaper.

Any thoughts on how an m18 could be useful compared to an m10 guys?

[Hicks58]

The EiRR Hellcat is vastly different to the vCoH Hellcat and has been for quite a while now.

The latest update reserves the cloak ability for vet 1 troops only with the exception of FJ and Snipers. My question is; is there any reason to use an M18 if it can't cloak?

Plenty of reason.

The M18 is now expensive for what? Marginally better armor and slower speed? It's not like it's going to be standing up to Panthers anyway, so is there a point to pay more without cloak? I guess the M18 can equip an MG, as if that makes a difference. Lowering the fuel cost (slightly) really didn't make a difference for any non-Armor companies because manpower and munitions are obviously the more useful resources for typical companies.

Armour is identical to the M10 but the M18 has +100 health, where the two units differentiate is that the Hellcat has a MUCH better gun for penetration.

By much better, I mean the M10 has 0.4 penetration vs Panther front whereas the Hellcat has 0.8, this means the M10 has 0.336 at long range vs the Hellcat's 0.672.

To break it down, here are the penetration modifiers (Range mods are 0.84 long, 0.92 medium, 1 short):

Panther - M18 0.8 / M10 0.4
Tiger - M18 0.85 / M10 0.5
StuG - M18 0.9 / M10 0.6
Hetzer - M18 0.9 / M10 0.6
Jagdpanther - M18 0.72 / M10 0.42
PzIV - M18 1.39 / M10 1.09 (M10 is very unlikely, but CAN bounce at max range)

All other unmodified armour types are penetrated by both tanks consistently.

Worth noting that the M10 has 4.2 reload vs the M18's 5.0, this means that if you're expecting heavy armour, bring Hellcats. If you're expecting medium/light armour, you'll be better off with M10's due to reload and the little extra speed.

The M10 on the other hand seems a lot more capable of avoiding taking damage all together with its speed, and I read it has better penetration (vCoH) on the CoH wiki. On top of this, it's cheaper.

FYI, CoH wiki is a very bad source of information for EiRR.

Any thoughts on how an m18 could be useful compared to an m10 guys?

It's plenty useful, it just isn't always the TD you'll necessarily want for a given situation. General rule of thumb? M10's for PE and M18's for WM. VERY general statement, but a fair one at a basic level.

[aeroblade56]

shit unit's.

as the penetration tables say a m10 wont perform better than a upgun sherman, not to mention the sherman can hit infantry aswell as fight all the same targets a m10 does.

The hellcat is also bad, 12 pop of pot shotting unit that's just going to eventually get die to sillyness. like blitz rush on low hp. or rogue teller. or magic goliath.

I honestly don't know anyone aside from korean m10 trains that are used. same with hellcats i see maybe 1 hellcat a game if that.

[Dauntless07]

Thanks for the data Hicks.

I agree, the units are still pretty terrible. I hadn't thought about it, but it makes sense the reason could be because they can't be supported while taking all the pop to call in other units. It makes the 57mm ATG look a lot more cost effective even with such a high munitions cost. Perhaps the pop of these vehicles should be decreased? It should definitely still be higher than the ATGs for obvious reasons, but 12 always felt very high to me. The only reason I still use it is because I have plenty of manpower and fuel.

[Uglysori]

shit unit's.

as the penetration tables say a m10 wont perform better than a upgun sherman, not to mention the sherman can hit infantry aswell as fight all the same targets a m10 does.

The hellcat is also bad, 12 pop of pot shotting unit that's just going to eventually get die to sillyness. like blitz rush on low hp. or rogue teller. or magic goliath.

I honestly don't know anyone aside from korean m10 trains that are used. same with hellcats i see maybe 1 hellcat a game if that.

You do realize that even the M10s gun has better overall pen (though not by much on the 76mm Sherman), much better accuracy, better range, and does a whooping 60-78% more damage against P4, Panther, Tiger, Jadg armor types as compared the Sherman upgun.  The only thing that M18s and M10s do 80ish damage to is Hetzers which will be outranging all three vehicles anyway.

[XIIcorps]

I persoally have always wondered why the M18 has had better armor and worse pen then the M10.
historically it was the opposite and a huge tard move on relics part.
M18 should be the bofors HT of the TD world.
able to get to where it needs to be to dish out the hurt and fast enough to get away should things go bad.

Whilst remaining a glass cannon.

[Hicks58]

I persoally have always wondered why the M18 has had better armor and worse pen then the M10.

What?

[Uglysori]

Pretty sure he is talking about VCOH M18s and M10s.

[XIIcorps]

Pretty sure he is talking about VCOH M18s and M10s.

yeh, I realise we kinda balanced it back to realism.
But coh fucking up in the first place skewed alot of people's information

[Hicks58]

Eh, well if we're talking about vCoH then it's kinda funny. I'm pretty sure the armour is exactly the same there too, which means the statement in the reward units page saying the Hellcat has extra armour is outright false lol.

[nikomas]

Even funnier still is that in real life the M10 was based of the sherman chassi iirc, so it still had some armor left...

I think the hellcat had like, 5-20mm of armor or smthn? The PzII/Greyhound probably had more armor 

[clonetroopers]

I've just been reading up on wikipedia, when in real life it took almost 2 minutes to rotate an m10's turret 360 degrees and a tiger could rotate 1440 degrees in those same 2 minutes, why the fuck can m10 circle everything to death?

[nikomas]

The King Tiger could also rotate it's turret 3x faster than the Tiger so... 

[clonetroopers]

lol king tiger circle strafes m10's for breakfast

[nikomas]

A maus could circle strafe an M10 if it was immobilized, lol