docs come back?

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[ick312]

Hey devs,

i dont want to pressure you. I am just curious if there is any outline or rough date for the doctrine release. Since they are what made eirr special.

kind regards ick

[chefarzt]

Cant put docs back in coz balance.

[ick312]

Cant put docs back in coz balance.

not that hard to fix.
get ride of
-Stormies elite armor,
-Ranger elite armor, give them AB armor (-25% received accuracy while standing is too much)
-inf doc smoke nades 4 uses for 15 munition. make it 1 usage
-Tankreaper jumbo upgun
-AB bot t4 croc churchill
AND change the following:
Tiger + pershing old stats
 FJs medpacks swap with explosive equitment

srsly the last patch wiped most of the balance problems

[PonySlaystation]

doctrines are the biggest balance issue, plus they suck the fun out of eir.

[deadbolt]

guise stahp

>dey removed doctrine to balance units
>da patch resulted in more imbalances
>we be fix dese imbalances
>such imbalance
>much fix
>wow such new mod
>r.i.p all da peepz who didn't survive da 70 year wait
>heya such EIRR:3 Russia vs murica

[GrayWolf]

doctrines are the biggest balance issue, plus they suck the fun out of eir.

Even OMG guys said, that EiR is better than OMG only cause of docs. EiR without docs isn't EiR.

Unfortunetly, devs won't return docs and everyone knows why. I don't want to blame tank, but HE said, docs will be off for a week. It's more than a month now. I know it was dev team decision, but still... Balancing doesn't have sense without docs, because if you move them back, there will be a shitload of unbalanced stuff. So... The only logic way is to balance while having docs or disable docs forever

[PonySlaystation]

he never said "a week", they will need more time to balance the base units and reward units.

[ick312]

forgot to add:

FJ armor on assault grens and Flammenwerfergruppen is also questionable

[tank130]

Even OMG guys said, that EiR is better than OMG only cause of docs. EiR without docs isn't EiR.

Unfortunetly, devs won't return docs and everyone knows why. I don't want to blame tank, but HE said, docs will be off for a week. It's more than a month now. I know it was dev team decision, but still... Balancing doesn't have sense without docs, because if you move them back, there will be a shitload of unbalanced stuff. So... The only logic way is to balance while having docs or disable docs forever

Blame tank for what? I took them off, but I can put them back on myself in about 2 minutes. But it is absolutely pointless to put back broken docs on broken balance.

You guys can QQ about docs coming back all day long, but they are broken and our balance is broken, so we are not going to bring them back like that.

Once base units are balanced, then we can start the task of balancing the docs. It was 100% impossible to balance the two at the same time. If waiting a few months to finally balance a game that has been fucked for 3 years is too much of a problem for you, and you feel OMG is better, then please move along to the better game (in your opinion)

In the meantime, we will continue to bust our asses to try and fix our broken game.

[deadbolt]

protip: you will never have a balanced mod unless everything is equal

[GrayWolf]

Blame tank for what? I took them off, but I can put them back on myself in about 2 minutes. But it is absolutely pointless to put back broken docs on broken balance.

This is why I do blame you. Do what you want, but I think, that balancing base units and then trying to balance docs is pointless.

For example : You buff HTs HP and then returns docs. With TH they have better armor and stuff, so ppl will be qqing about lack of balance.

Next : You guys buffed Tigers accuracy and range. Now let me take HEAT and look how Tiger is OP atm.

protip: you will never have a balanced mod unless everything is equal

Give this man a medal.

[ick312]

protip: you will never have a balanced mod unless everything is equal

BS asymetric balance is possible, based on mathematical evidence

This is why I do blame you. Do what you want, but I think, that balancing base units and then trying to balance docs is pointless.

For example : You buff HTs HP and then returns docs. With TH they have better armor and stuff, so ppl will be qqing about lack of balance.

Next : You guys buffed Tigers accuracy and range. Now let me take HEAT and look how Tiger is OP atm.

Give this man a medal.

somehow also a good argument, even i need to admit that tank is having also a good point

Wulfi i really believe, that balance is possible. A Rating of DPS and HP could be used as basis for this. For example: Rofleman cost 200 MP now Stormies cost 300 MP => Stormies need to be 50% better then Rofleman.
Crazy units like KCH, having a good armor, and a good short range gun. derive the % how much they are better at short/mid/long range and how much more HP they effektively have compared to rofleman, then adjust price and pop.

[GrayWolf]

BS asymetric balance is possible, based on mathematical evidence

You mean, Hicks mathematics ?

[tank130]

This is why I do blame you. Do what you want, but I think, that balancing base units and then trying to balance docs is pointless.

For example : You buff HTs HP and then returns docs. With TH they have better armor and stuff, so ppl will be qqing about lack of balance.

Next : You guys buffed Tigers accuracy and range. Now let me take HEAT and look how Tiger is OP atm.

Please read previous posts before you post.......

You whole  argument is centered around bringing back current doctrines. We have stated numerous times in other threads and just now in this thread that we will balance doctrines after the base units are balanced. You do not balance doctrines by bringing them back exactly the way they were before you changed the units.

You guys can QQ about docs coming back all day long, but they are broken and our balance is broken, so we are not going to bring them back like that.

So here's the process in simple to understand steps:
1.) balance base units versus base units to best acceptable level.
2.) review doctrine design and ensure all doc buffs are relative to the new base unit balance. Adjust doc design and/or buffs prior to release.
3.) Release adjusted doc for play testing
4.) Tweak docs as required, just like the process we used for base units

This is what should have happened  3-4 years ago, but the Dev team at the time thought you could balance a games base units, at the same time as docs, while still trying to keep vCoH stats.
In fact, it is mind sets like yours GrayWolf that has created this cluster fuck in the first place.

Now we are fixing it.

[GrayWolf]

So here's the process in simple to understand steps:
1.) balance base units versus base units to best acceptable level.
2.) review doctrine design and ensure all doc buffs are relative to the new base unit balance. Adjust doc design and/or buffs prior to release.
3.) Release adjusted doc for play testing
4.) Tweak docs as required, just like the process we used for base units

For me it looks like 2 years of work

In fact, it is mind sets like yours GrayWolf that has created this cluster fuck in the first place.

? Game was balanced, just few things were OP. Now this stuff, PE infantry, Tiger and Pershing are far too OP.

[GrayWolf]

Dbl

[tank130]

For me it looks like 2 years of work

? Game was balanced, just few things were OP. Now this stuff, PE infantry, Tiger and Pershing are far too OP.

For me it looks like 2 years of work

This is a very good example of why you are not on the team to do it. Can't imagine why it would take you that long?

? Game was balanced, just few things were OP.

lol....... do you realize how silly that sounds?  It's kinda like saying she is not pregnant, she just has a small baby inside.......


Most of the units are Balanced
Most of the Docs are Balanced.

We fix the docs that were unbalanced. We fix any doc that affect a base unit that was changed..........it's not rocket science Wolf.

[EIRRMod]

The issue with bringing the docs back, is the system of doctrines more than the unlocks themselves.

The T4s need to be balanced not just against other T4s, but what previous T3 and less unlocks you *might* have.
This, obviously, causes some similar builds with the same T4 (but different other choices) to be OP or UP (or broken!).

So, we'll probably have the doctrines (in their current state) brought back in at some stage, but will have to look at how they work overall and perhaps change that mechanism.

[XIIcorps]

Yeh HEAT tigers when I have 0 ap round 57mms.
HE pershings when I have 0 cloak paks.

[tank130]

Yeh HEAT tigers when I have 0 ap round 57mms.
HE pershings when I have 0 cloak paks.

We have said numerous times that we are NOT bringing back doctrines in their current state. I don't know how else we can spell this out for you guys......

one more time....... we are balancing base units. When that is complete, we will look at doctrines and balance what needs to be changed.

Why would we bring back doctrines that were created around unbalanced units in the exact same form we took them out in?