Patch R003

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[XIIcorps]

I'd honestly like that, the Pershing was a superior tank destroyer to the tiger, of this there is little doubt...  Not much of a suprise either as the Pershing is a later design.

Granted, the KT would still kick pershing butt but that's another matter.

so weve dropped Vcoh balance which is the single greatest thing to happen to this mod, but now are we really going to open up that "realism" vault

[tank130]

I don't think he is opening up the realism vault at all. What I think he is doing is getting us to think outside of the box now and again. It is aggravating as hell to hear people  argue that we should not change something because that has been the way it always was.

I don't know if Niko's idea is good or not, but it does get us thinking of other solutions. I completely disagreed with the Tiger & Pershing being compared as essentially the same unit, so this may be a good way to break that mantra.

[aeroblade56]

make pershing Op

and tiger UP.

problem solved. very deffirent units.

[nikomas]

I don't honestly know if it's a great idea or not, but fact remains that historically it was both better, more modern and more rare than the Tiger. Why not represent this fact in game? There is a vast difference between using reality to inform design and using realistic stats. It just so happens that the allies could probably use a Heavy TD.

The whole idea behind the last buffs was the fact that for AI duty, two shermans/PzIV's is pretty much always a better idea, so making it more specialized so these units are not in direct competition might be an interesting idea at the very least.

I do want to keep in mind that the KT was still superior to it

[Hicks58]

Putting the HVAP gun as default for the Pershing could be something.

IE, the old one that kicked it's splash in the balls but made it chew up heavy armour. With 45 range it'd be an extremely reliable TD. It's splash could be tuned even further down to Panther levels if even it's old HVAP splash is too much.

The Tiger though, it works as it stands. It's just one of those bloody units that's like the Mk VI - It's built for a pretty specific playstyle (Support heavy). We'd have to go about changing the dynamics of that unit too if people want to keep convincing themselves it's a bag of crap.

[AmPM]

The problem with that, is it would really put the Tiger in the useless range.

I'm not sure how to fix the Tiger. 45 range without extra speed would be a good spot. Both of our Heavy tanks, Tiger and Pershing, were known as being tank destroying beasts. The Tiger is just 4 years older.

[aeroblade56]

Putting the HVAP gun as default for the Pershing could be something.

IE, the old one that kicked it's splash in the balls but made it chew up heavy armour. With 45 range it'd be an extremely reliable TD. It's splash could be tuned even further down to Panther levels if even it's old HVAP splash is too much.

The Tiger though, it works as it stands. It's just one of those bloody units that's like the Mk VI - It's built for a pretty specific playstyle (Support heavy). We'd have to go about changing the dynamics of that unit too if people want to keep convincing themselves it's a bag of crap.

could just give it really heavy damage mods vs certain tanks.

could do like a geschutz or something with either of them lower pen but hits like the hammer of thor when it pens.

[Hicks58]

could just give it really heavy damage mods vs certain tanks.

You've never seen the damage mods for the HVAP Pershing then I take it.

could do like a geschutz or something with either of them lower pen but hits like the hammer of thor when it pens.

Not sure how a 550 FU investment is going to work out as a gamble unit...

[tank130]

I think the solution to the Tiger is pretty simple. It is slower, so give it more range. If it can fight at range, then it does not need the speed to get out of trouble (as long as it is supported)

[XIIcorps]

55 range Achilles pls.
Stuart with 75mu canister pls.




Back to an old topic tho.
toggled ammo types ? Similar to the blitz mod.
Not sure how drastic it would be to code tho most of it is already in the code ( HE toggle)

[Hicks58]

I think the solution to the Tiger is pretty simple. It is slower, so give it more range. If it can fight at range, then it does not need the speed to get out of trouble (as long as it is supported)

I'd say we've seen pretty well what happens when a unit with 137.5 damage, high splash and full infantry accuracy (0.75) gets 45 range. It's the kinda shit that's reserved for 700 FU reward units clocking in at 18 pop. You can say what you like about the Tiger being slow, but 4 speed and 2 accel is enough to kite inf reliably with 40 range, nevermind 45.

The only reason the KT isn't 100% raping face the way the R002 Tiger/Pershing did is because it has 0.6 accuracy, crap accel/decel and it's a big enough resource/pop hog - But even then it's still extremely powerful now.

[Rocksitter]

 What gives the idea that the Pershing was a better tank then the tiger? I think over all the tiger was a better developed tank..

[aeroblade56]

they never said it was better. they said they both tore apart other tanks.

[XIIcorps]

It was just plain silly having a tiger with 5 speed meanwhile panther has 5.2

If we want to base things loosely on reality then,
pershing with its 90mm could be 45 range but more oriented to TD role. Seeing its a med tank with heavy stats it could have less hp then the tiger 1000-1100 to the tigers 1400. Making up for this with its med tank speed.

The tiger being a true heavy would be more multirole whilst being that much slower, with its 4 speed. All the while keep its 40-45 range and 1400 hp

[Hicks58]

Tiger has 1200 HP.

It's the TA that has 1400.

[XIIcorps]

Tiger has 1200 HP.

It's the TA that has 1400.

oh cock

[Mysthalin]

Buff tiger moving accuracy to 0.75 instead of the current 0.5.

Done, fixed, all of it's infantry kiting problems are gone forever and the brick can actually start breaking ATG walls in an offensive manner, and M10/18s do not become obsolete in trying to tackle it.

[XIIcorps]

Buff tiger moving accuracy to 0.75 instead of the current 0.5.

Done, fixed, all of it's infantry kiting problems are gone forever and the brick can actually start breaking ATG walls in an offensive manner, and M10/18s do not become obsolete in trying to tackle it.

why tho when axis mortars out range everything the allies have bar arty. Ntm stuka bombing run plus a well timed push easily eliminates enemy atgs.

 If the tiger has 40 range maybe a 0.75 moving acc would be ok but if its going to have 45 range its best to stay at 0.5

[Hicks58]

Buff tiger moving accuracy to 0.75 instead of the current 0.5.

Done, fixed, all of it's infantry kiting problems are gone forever and the brick can actually start breaking ATG walls in an offensive manner, and M10/18s do not become obsolete in trying to tackle it.

This has merit.

[XIIcorps]

Croms really need flank speed back at vet0.
without it they cannot really pick and choose their engagements against heavier armor, especially panthers