Ablative Plating

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[XIIcorps]

So ive had an epiphany.
Currently Ablative Armor as a T4 gives you 75 extra hp for Light vehicle's and 200 hp for Tanks.

Now considering most other T4's give you some sort of multi unit stat boost I was thinking maybe we could change ablative to do the same.

And here's why.

The hp boosts offered are a phalicsy,  considering they are barely noticeable when it comes to end game AT.
75hp on lvs is ok vs small arms but vs virtually all AT and HHAT it quickly evaporates.

The same for tanks vs Heat, or the multiple buffed shrek choices.

Im proposing with an open mind, that ablative gives vechs received pen buffs.
Nothing Outlandish as say 50% but more noticeable the the rubbish 5 or 10% buffs applied by some choices.

Discussion to follow.

[Hicks58]

Now considering most other T4's give you some sort of multi unit stat boost I was thinking maybe we could change ablative to do the same.

People have been harping on about how they want doctrines to be more focused and you're proposing watering down RSE's best T4?

Take a rain check XII. 200 HP is the equivalent of taking just over 2 medium tank rounds, just under 2 heavy tank rounds, a little over 3 LV rounds without throwing anything else into the mix.

It ups the Firefly health to EQUAL TO Panther health (750 vs 742) and gives the Cromwell MORE health than a Panther (800 vs 742).. Combine with Hull Down for epic lulz. If you're feeling adventurous, throw in vet 1 (Easily obtainable) for extra incoming damage resistance (-15%). AKA, your tanks pretty much never fucking die.

Let me put this in perspective for you properly.

Ablative Armour. Hull Down. Vet 1. Churchill 75mm/Croc goes from 900 base HP to 1100 HP with the Ablative Armour, then 1265 effective HP with vet 1 (So no need for hulldown and you're rocking Tiger health) and finally 1581.25 HP whilst Hulled Down. Nevermind the 0.75 incoming penetration from Hull Down as well.

That's Jagdpanther health on a Churchill for crying out loud.

Firefly: 550 -> 750 (AA) -> 862.5 (Vet 1) -> 1078 (HD).

You've said some questionable things XII, but this one (Saying that Ablative Armour needs something more) takes the biscuit.

[nikomas]

So there was this joke, one day someone will complain about ablative armor so here we go...

Bren Carrier - 245 > 320 (31%)
BC MMG      - 300 > 375 (25%)
Staghound  - 300 > 375 (25%)
Stuart        - 380 > 455 (20%)
M8 Scott    - 380 > 455 (20%)
M15A1 HT   - 375 > 450 (20%)

So... what other buff, if I may ask, increases the toughness of a light vehicle by 20-30% while providing secondary buffs? Lets do tanks for fun!

Kangaroo  - 350 > 550 (57%, lol)
Achillies   - 400 > 600 (33%)
Firefly     - 550 > 750 (36%, Panther has 742)
Cromwell  - 636 > 836 (31%, see above)
Comet     - 742 > 942 (27%, pretty much pershing)
Churchill  - 900 > 1100 (Who cares bout the %, that's Super pershing health)

Man, looking at this list that T4 is quite fucked imho, but that's just my opinion. (My long lost Vet 5 fireflies, CCT and cromwells agree)



Anyway, it's way stronger than pretty much any individual buff in the game, boring, but strong.

[XIIcorps]

not complaining so much as looking to breath new life into the mod with different ideas.
Ablative as it stands while yes gives you pretty beef hp, is a single one time investment to the surviveability of a unit, and is lost  after the first engagement.

Mean while every other T4 provides a constant statistical buff to a unit(s).

Just Brainstorming bru

[XIIcorps]

After an engagement your tank has it's normal health instead of 70% of normal? Yeah, you've lost all of the benefit of ablative

well considering most tank weapons do 100-200 dmg, you loose the advantage after the first shot tiggy.

[nikomas]

well considering most tank weapons do 100-200 dmg, you loose the advantage after the first shot tiggy.

I don't even...

Most tank guns do 87.5 damage, that's the average done by most regular tanks (Stug, P4, Hetzer and so on)
The Pak does 115 damage. Most heavier tank guns like the panther and tiger do 137.5 damage and even super-heavies like the Elefant/KT/JagdPanther only do 165 damage by base and if you are getting british tanks shot up by these you are probably fighting them with the wrong units.

The only tank that has ever done more damage per shot than this is the Maus, and it's not exactly around anymore. I don't think we're counting the 88 here since it's never really built and it's not a Tank. Stop trying to undersell ablative armor, do remember that a larger health pool stacks well with the veterancy/hulldown buffs to boot, and that you gain repair buffs from the bottom T2.

If you want a very probable duel example?

It'll likely take 6 penetrating (they will) panther shots to kill a 750HP Firefly, Guess how many penetrating (and they will) Firefly shots it takes to kill the 742HP panther? You seriously dont think being able to take 2 more hits makes a huge difference?

[Hicks58]

A Tiger shoots your Firefly in the face without Ablative:

550 HP drops down to 412.5 HP.

A Tiger shoots your Firefly in the face with Ablative:

750 HP drops down to 612.5 HP.

No advantage is lost after the first engagement. Your advantage is that you took that shot to the face and you're still standing where a standard variant would be hurting. You get enough effective health to survive situations that you may not otherwise, and you can then go off and repair back to your extended 750 HP (Remember, it fully adds to the stock health).

Firefly reload at long range is 5.5, Panther reload at long range is 7. FF has 125 damage and Panther has 137.5.

You get enough health that you can sit both tanks at 47.5 range, have them slug it out with each other, and the Firefly will win every time by a near 2 shell margin. If the Panther comes to medium range, it becomes a coin flip with any unlucky misses/rare bounces deciding it, and the Panther will just about win at point blank range by a single shell. Engage Hull Down (Which you'll have thanks to the T3 behind it) and you'll fuck the Panther even if he gets point blank and up your arse.

Without Ablative Armour, a Panther will wreck the Firefly in a slug match at any range (Granted, the Firefly is rightfully supposed to be kiting, but we'll assume shit has happened) where as Ablative Armour gives you the opportunity to engage the Panther on equal footing.

That's a single example, with a single tank affected by this T4. It opens up a whole plethora of new options for you purely because you CAN now take a beating.

If you can't see that then it's your failing, not the T4's.

well considering most tank weapons do 100-200 dmg, you loose the advantage after the first shot tiggy.

Oh and standard tank damage is 65 for lights, 87.5 for mediums, 137.5 for heavies and 165 for the super heavies, with a few minor exceptions.

Ablative Armour is a solid T4 even if it is incredibly simple. There are plenty of other T4's out there that are shit that actually need attention focused on them.

[XIIcorps]

Well im sold then, please note this wasnt a qq, but a more abstract way of redoing an ability.

After seeing the stats, and rethinking I guess ablative is essentially a get out of jail free card.

Cheers

[nikomas]

I want to note that I love the simplicity of the ability, while in some ways it might be called "OP" compared to other abilities it really does open up a lot of alternatives while remaining both simple in concept and coding. If someone could come up with balanced abilities along that line I'd probably rather see that than the "Buff everything" mentality. I realize that's what some of the old doctrines were but I wasn't around back then.

What we've seen so far is mostly that the "Lots of little buffs" T4's are some of the least popular ones, focused ones are.

[XIIcorps]

I want to note that I love the simplicity of the ability, while in some ways it might be called "OP" compared to other abilities it really does open up a lot of alternatives while remaining both simple in concept and coding. If someone could come up with balanced abilities along that line I'd probably rather see that than the "Buff everything" mentality. I realize that's what some of the old doctrines were but I wasn't around back then.

What we've seen so far is mostly that the "Lots of little buffs" T4's are some of the least popular ones, focused ones are.

Perfect example would be HEAT rounds, 15% dmg 35% penetration. Something that can turn a lowley pair of STuGs into a more effective AT option then a Panther.

[nikomas]

I actually like it more for the "Improved Coaxial/Hull MG" for the PzIV/Tiger. In my book that T4 exists to make PzIV's fun.

/devagenda

Seriously thou, shermans and PzIV's always felt so overshadowed by everything else, it maketh me sad.

[XIIcorps]

I actually like it more for the "Improved Coaxial/Hull MG" for the PzIV/Tiger. In my book that T4 exists to make PzIV's fun.

/devagenda

Seriously thou, shermans and PzIV's always felt so overshadowed by everything else, it maketh me sad.

They were even in Vcoh, just more so now because there rendered obsolete by better units.

[Scotzmen]

Ablative makes a hell of a difference running Stuarts. Allows me to take that one or 2 extra hits and stay on the frontline that little bit extra. Coupled with dual repair, it's a god send for them.

I have a thing about Stuarts....

[terrapinsrock]

Ablative makes a hell of a difference running Stuarts. Allows me to take that one or 2 extra hits and stay on the frontline that little bit extra. Coupled with dual repair, it's a god send for them.

I have a thing about Stuarts....

A Stuart fetish is nothing to feel ashamed about.

A Hetzer one is on the other hand............. *hangs head in shame*

[CrazyWR]

hetzers are trash

[Hicks58]

Hetzers gonna Hetz.

Wind in particular had a bit of a talent for making them Hetz.

[nikomas]

I thought the only thing they're really good for is trolling bazookas?

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Trolling bazookas?
even tough the fucking thing bounce they still lose half their health.

[aeroblade56]

Hetzers gonna Hetz.

Wind in particular had a bit of a talent for making them Hetz.

Truth, he used to get 10+ kills on almost everyone and make them last ages.

[Hicks58]

That was because he ran them with a Bergetiger and only committed the Hetzers to fights they could win or comfortably escape from. I forgot what support he ran with them.