Smokaz
Honoured Member
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« on: May 20, 2014, 03:05:02 pm » |
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Who feels that the Sherman 75" & 76", and the P4 could do with a fuel decrease? Maybe even a pop decrease to 10.
The 75mm sherman feels kinda UP right now, and the p4 doesn't seem to be fairing much better.
Something like 1-2 pop reduction, 20 fuel redution for p4, 30 fuel reduction for the sherman 75mm.
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« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 03:06:39 pm by Smokaz »
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SlippedHerTheBigOne: big penis puma
SlippedHerTheBigOne: and i have no repairkits
SlippedHerTheBigOne: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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XIIcorps
Donator
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« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2014, 03:09:54 pm » |
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And the cromwell ?......
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some of My kids i work with shower me  |
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Smokaz
Honoured Member
Posts: 11418
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« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2014, 03:14:44 pm » |
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Cromwell is already 20 fuel cheaper than them but maybe they could need it to.
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aeroblade56
Development
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« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2014, 05:00:44 pm » |
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I think the cromwell is great but its sad vet 1 is needed to use flank speed which is kinda lame considering its armor n stuff
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You are welcome to your opinion.
You are also welcome to be wrong.
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XIIcorps
Donator
Posts: 2558
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« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2014, 06:12:54 pm » |
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Yeh but shermans get more hp, 50cal and more AT ability.
Pz4 gets skirts, decent mgs
Crom has to get vet 1 to use flank speed, has less hp and crapper armor.
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| terrapinsrock
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« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2014, 07:29:34 pm » |
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The Cromwell as it is right now is a shadow of the machine it once was
(Niko goddamn it you took away my Crom buffs from RCA)
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Bit hard when its flaunted infront of you as a broken reward piece of ass you'll never get to shag with.
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| NightRain
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« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2014, 10:11:46 pm » |
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Is it so that Medium tanks are crap- or that Heavy tanks are more cost effective? For medium tanks are expensive to run and if you run mediums you ain't gonna be running anything else. Basically, couple of anti tank guns and mediums are rendered inable to do much as they can not afford to take hits.
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Because a forum post should be like a woman's skirt. Long enough to cover the subject material, but short enough to keep things interesting.
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shockcoil
griefer & spammer
EIR Veteran Posts: 1566
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« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2014, 11:08:38 pm » |
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I've been saying for a while. Raising overall manpower will make medium tanks more effective
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Smokaz
Honoured Member
Posts: 11418
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« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2014, 12:57:49 am » |
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Sherman more than the others need help
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| CrazyWR
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« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2014, 01:39:44 am » |
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I disagree, I think the Sherman does fine relative to the others...
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1. New tactics? it's like JAWS, first one in the water dies
RCA-land where shells fall like raindrops and the Captain is an invincible god
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XIIcorps
Donator
Posts: 2558
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« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2014, 02:23:40 am » |
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I disagree, I think the Sherman does fine relative to the others...
Yeh its definatly the best in terms of cost vs effectiveness. You can use any doctrine and have it be usefull. P4's are only good with HEAT/MG buff Croms are semi good with Ablative, and were awesomesauce with RCA multibuffs. |
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| NightRain
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« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2014, 04:33:50 am » |
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I have to agree that Sherman is actually the best medium currently around with its versatility.
P4 just has to compete against a Assault Gun and a Panther, both which have better armor and argueably better cannons and range.
Both StuG and Panther are better than P4 at taking on tanks while both are medicore against infantry. Not to say that P4 is better at it than the two other choices. P4 itself is just a questionmark in a sense.
It is too expensive to run a P4 company as it is to run a sherman company. Also the doctrine compositions can also bite one in the arse. From axis standpoint a armor company Sherman gets bazookas a 55 munition tank destroyer deteriorer to haras all of Panzer elite and choice of 3 different Tier 4s each which gives Sherman a different role or a fashinating move and repair double T3s.
From Axis standpoints running a P4 company has two solid alternatives which are not all too massive. Lightning War does give P4s ability to stand its ground and fire while repairing and also nifty +6 LoS which allows it to fire at its max range while spotting by itself. Also small speed boost. The most obvious choice is HEAT rounds which gives not only better accuracy but improved penetration and damage boost for all of its weapons. Duo repairs also available with doc choices and also a rapid engagement blitzkrieg ability.
With the cost of a P4 company that carries 6 P4s the chances are that depending on upgrades one can or rather will have plenty of vanilla infantry squads and majority of this force is set to try and decrew ATGs, ultimately the most cost effective unit in the whole mod. God forbid if there's even one super heavy on allied side the poor panzer 4 company is toasted and has to rely on its own AT assets to deal with anything heavier than a churchill.
Not to say that Sherman doesn't have its own problems. Poor cromwell has plenty of its own problems as it is with very little to give it any direct buffs but that is fault of the doctrines not buffs.
Without any doctrine buffs Sherman would rule, P4 would be close second and cromwell dead last from the CoH mediums. (alternatively Panther would be first but it is classed as heavy in CoH)
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Hicks58
Development
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« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2014, 05:31:51 am » |
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The Sherman isn't particularly bad, it just suffers from the same thing as every other medium tank in that there is always a better option.
Infantry? Jumbos (Flat upgrade and handily results in less MP/MU used due to less tanks for fuel constraints).
Airborne? Crocs (They mesh so much better with AB).
Armour? LV's/Pershings (LV's can be brought in higher quantities to make more use of the armour buffs and the Pershing is simply flat out better, not only that Armour lives on it's MU due to a heavy dependence on ATG's and Rifleman upgrades which Shermans WILL choke the shit out of if you want .50cals and dual reps).
Same kind of thing tends to happen for the PzIV as Speedy pointed out with the StuG/Panther just being better alternatives besides one or two pigeon-holed doctrines.
PzIV's and Shermans CAN work if you grab the right doctrine choices, but it's a pain in the ass and super heavies will make both company types live and breath on their ATG's, which are liable to get roasted by Sniper, support weapon or offmap spam.
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I mean I know Obama was the first one in EiR to get a card. and tbfh the Race card is pretty OP. but Romney has the K.K.K., those guys seem to camo anywhere. So OP units from both sides.
At the end of the day, however, stormtroopers finally got the anal invasion with a cactus they have richly deserved for years.
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aeroblade56
Development
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« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2014, 05:39:24 am » |
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its much easier i feel to back in ye olden days before flank speed nerf to run cromwells than shermans.
The deffirent support such as artillery and officer offmaps aswell as the occasional avre or riflenades are all just good support in terms of removing a atg or blobs for the cromwell.
The sherman( if you go armor) has zooks and calliope. and that one zook is pretty shit and pretty exspensive. and the calliope is pretty hit or miss so i wouldnt really rely on it to much to take out a atg.
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XIIcorps
Donator
Posts: 2558
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« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2014, 06:22:07 am » |
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perhaps mainline tanks could see a cost reduction overall, to make them more of a viable quantity option then the errant heavy/super heavy options.
maybe 2.5 shermans could add upto 1 pershing
2.5 PIV's add upto a Tiger
2.5 Croms adding upto a ChuchCroc
(im just spitballing with numbers here)
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| NightRain
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« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2014, 06:53:30 am » |
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The most obvious thing that is coming is a nerf for heavy tanks rather than price decreases to mediums. Overall mediums are way too expensive with better alternatives around. Manpower and munition wise while heavies are cheaper since you get less of them. Thus the most obvious outcome is that heavy tanks will cost more to make mediums more attractive choice rather than go full on ballistic with two heavy tanks and call it a day.
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tank130
Sugar Daddy
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« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2014, 07:02:15 am » |
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More often then not units are buffed to make them more interesting, resulting in the other units becoming bland.
Yes, some units are nerfed, but if you look at the overall stats over several years, you will see the tendency is to buff things. Often when one buff is considered many people claim the apposing sides similar unit should also get a buff. Back & forth it goes until everyone starts using the buffed units.
I would suggest making changes to the heavies that make mediums a viable alternative. I think mediums should be the staple of a company. Heavies should be a specialty that results in a significant shortfall in other areas of your company.
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Geez, while Wind was banned I forgot that he is, in fact, totally insufferable
I'm not going to lie Tig, 9/10 times you open your mouth, I'm overwhelmed with the urge to put my foot in it.
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Smokaz
Honoured Member
Posts: 11418
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« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2014, 07:48:07 am » |
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You guys seriously think the 75'' sherman is on the top of the medium tank food chain?  |
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GrayWolf
Development
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« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2014, 07:55:11 am » |
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yes.
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aeroblade56
Development
Posts: 3871
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« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2014, 08:20:56 am » |
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You guys seriously think the 75'' sherman is on the top of the medium tank food chain? No. I think a p4 with Heat rounds or stug MG are probably the best. The added accuracy of the gun and the MG becoming just silly strong make the unit a terror to any infantry. Sure it may lack the AT department but it pens pershings and crocs fair enough. you will hardly ever see a sherman pen a panther or something. |
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