hetzer

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[ick312]

well,

anyone who used them can tell. (Just made a test game to make sure)

Any suggestions what to do to make them useable again?

[Smokaz]

With ACPR they are somewhat viable, the ambush does good damage.

I would like if it had a 1.2 or so dmg modifier  vs light armor which closes on it to fast and generally fuck them up too much at short range for the damage they are allowed to do.

Generally we use modifiers too little in this our patches. Some of the vcoh modifiers we removed have improved the game, especially concering the hetzer (m18 for instance..)

People will mention the range of the hetzer, Wind thought it was the best medium... Range is good, but the base penetration of the hetzer also gets worse eat range.

[GrayWolf]

Hetzers (10 pop) are bad. Marders (6 pop) are far better option.

[skaffa]

Make em good vs infantry.

[PonySlaystation]

Hetzer and Stug both cost too much pop (StugIV is now 10 pop for some reason) to be worth fielding for an AT unit. They don't have a rotatable turret and they can't fight infantry well. The Stug needs to come back to 8 pop, the extra range doesn't compensate for 2 pop. The Hetzer, while a decent AT unit, is not worth 10 pop when Marder is 6 pop and 50mm Halftrack is 5 pop.

[Mister Schmidt]

Stug is 8 pop tbh?

Or is that just in the launcher?

[nikomas]

It was 10 pop a while back, it's been 8 again for a while now.

You have to remember pony only updates his info every 3rd month or so

[CrazyWR]

Hetzers have never been useful...

[terrapinsrock]

Yea, I've been advocating for buffing the Hetzer for forever


It just costs too much in terms of resources and pop, and even with APCR, it performs meh at best. Plus the heavy HHAT meta hasn't helped it either.

It really could use a buff of some sort (maybe increased pen?)

[Mister Schmidt]

I was determined to find a viable Hetzer build when I returned

Lost 6 games in a row

#justsaying

[Shabtajus]

Hetzer.marder.stug.g-vagon.50mm  all of those units are great in hands who know how to use them. Its way harder to use hetzer than etc panther which is dedicated td so as hetzer is. Most ppl go nuts cuz of hard micro and misinformation what hetzer is suposed to do.  You have 50 range unit after all with acces to ambush bonus. If that dont say you nothing than well i will volunteer showing you how hetzers can hetz 

[Smokaz]

One thing we haven't thought about is simply moving hetzer out of the confines of the generalist anti tank.

Hellcat and m10 was differentiated nicely. We solved this overlap very well.

PE don't need 10 pop hetzer to snipe from range - marder is too effective in comparison. And they both have the same weaknesses (infantry charge, flanking)

What about increasing the price to hellcat fuel levels - upping the Hp to 646 - make it 0.15 accuracy vs inf and give it even better armor? Give the ambush a slight slow effect (0.5 coh speed) lasting 5 seconds and give it faster reverse.


This unit needs to be worth it to use over the marder (in some situations) other than having better armor and ability to snipe 1 man.

But I'm not sure, like I posted earlier, with ACPR + Ambush the hetzer is not bad. But I wouldn't play it in the tournament unless I was very sure what I was playing against.

[terrapinsrock]

Dunno had quite a few of these over the years, and even managed to have a coy of 2 vet 5s and a couple of vet 4s so I'd say I've got a good idea of how to play the Hetz:



But this was before the AB coy rework (May '13 I think?)

Anyways, I think Smokaz is right, we need to somehow differentiate the Hetzer from the Marder, because the Marder is better in everyway in terms of AT.

[Mister Schmidt]

Anyway, on a serious note, I would say the requirement for vet 1 before  having the cloaking ability should be removed.

[terrapinsrock]

Anyway, on a serious note, I would say the requirement for vet 1 before  having the cloaking ability should be removed.

Wait, didn't that get removed a patch or 2 ago?

[Smokaz]

Any further flaming/trolling/offtopic and I will ask  for the person in question to get a 'free' break from the balance forum.

Retard posts deleted.

Lay it off ray/aero, please.

[XIIcorps]

Its a perfect example of a redundant unlock.

It could certainly use some buffs vs hhat pen wise.

Cloak should be vet 0.

Maybe give it a lock down abilty too ?

[NightRain]

Hetzer has one of the best armors in game. It does suffer from same thing as StuGs do aka low health. What Hetzer lacks is what a StuG doesn't is damage modifiers. 87.5 damage on a tank destroyer with no modifiers? It could do with some modifiers, it might love that damage buff vs all targets.

From long range vs a Sherman its 50% chance to penetrate. This is further increased with APCR but yeah, dice rolls are a bitch.

We do have to congratulate it having a decent reload speed.

[Mister Schmidt]

.marder.stug.g-vagon.50mm

Every single one of those is a hell of a lot easier and also more effective than the Hetzer.

Marder is much better at AT, much cheaper too.

Stug can fulfill AT quite well, especially with various doctrine buffs, and with the MG and crush is effective at AI.

Geschutzwagon is highly effective AT, especially with Rapid Fire, and again, has an MG upgrade.

50mm is a cheap and highly mobile Pak, suffers from bad pathing like all PE units but is much easier to make up its cost than the Hetzer.


The Hetzer does have long range yes, but its penetration chances are pitiful at that long range.
The MG upgrade doesn't seem too effective to me, I don't think it's as powerful as the Stug one, but that's just an observation, I'm not sure on that. Honestly, it is just not good enough for it's cost.

[Shabtajus]

Every single one of those is a hell of a lot easier and also more effective than the Hetzer.

i doubt ya ever used g-vagons and 50mm. Those 2 have the most fucked up pathing tbfh