[WM] Stormtroopers

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[TheWindCriesMary]

Once the scourge of the mod with their magical ability to appear out of nowhere and make tanks transform into fiery piles of horrific destruction, the Stormtrooper is now the ugly, three legged street dog of EiR. Abused, malnourished and languishing forgotten in the dusty corner of our memories.

It's rare to see anyone use Stormtroopers these days (typically it's either new players or players returning to the mod from a long absence and assuming nothing has changed) but it's essentially never that you see someone use them twice. Why? Because they serve no role that suits their cost, typically get annihilated without mercy and basically whenever someone uses them these days they invariably get criticized by their teammates for the choice (which isn't altogether unfair).

I think the biggest contributor to Stormtroopers not being viable in their current state is that they lack a role post-nerf. Aside from being able to equip mp44s or a second shrek and use bundle nades (still not anywhere worth it for their cost) they just don't have a reason to be used. I think tweaking them to give them a role would help put them back on the road to recovery. If not to over powered status again, then at least to relevance.

Possible solutions (one, MAYBE two of these, to start small. Definitely not all):

-Increase their speed slightly to make them "assault infantry"
-Lower their cost
-Give them FJ style "crawl cloak" (Nightrain mentioned mp44 equipped storms can cloak and move as normal albeit cannot pick up weapons)
-Let them cloak in cover by default
-Others?

[nikomas]

Some changes going in next patch (it's partially in the works now that mysth/ninja dude is around), So I'd wait for that first before seeing what else needs doing.

[tank130]

I completely agree that they were over nerfed and serve no real purpose anymore.

The only real OP problem with Storms was dual shrek cloaking storms. The only change that really needed to be made was to not allow dual shrek on cloaked storms. Simple as that.

Cloaking mp44s were a nasty thing to handle, but easily controlled with some good recon that could not be instagibbed by it.

Dual Shreks on the other hand would instagib the recon (jeeps) creating an unfair advantage.

Put storms back the way they were prenerf and just eliminate the option to have dual or triple shreks.

[Shabtajus]

kinda agreed with wind, i used em with doctrines buffs before warmap reset meh still not worth and too expensive run storm coy. Only  1 strat for storms was at least decently usefull is double shrecks next to sniper to protect it. Other strats widely used before removal of cloack looks silly atm.

bundle nade should be looked at cuz it was something in the middle of satchel and regular nade. right? cost more than regular nade cuz ya could dropp it being cloacked and had more damage with longer timer to explode. Without cloack it sux hardcore and leaves storms without acces to proper nades and they lose in metagame where ya can get grens with better nades (i am talking about usage / price NOT about damage) and get more of em.

same goes for other weapon upgrades which are available for storms like mp40s. Every day i woulda go for lmgs instead of mp40s since getting close to allied inf to make mp40s rape is a big deal. In procces ya gonna lose a men or 2 depends on situation but any taken damage to storm squad cost ya way more than in grens case. Is it me or storms being supressed way faster than grens when faces bars SF or mg?

shrecks? i would choose grens to carry this weapon. Cheaper platform.

now if ya gonna add docs.. man storms r doomed cuz of grens getting elite armour. Why choose shit over gold?

My point here is that storms after hardcore nerfs (1st removed elite armour which was possible via doctrines and 2nd removal of cloack) lost identity and became more expensive grens with shittier upgrades and went downhill. Nothing to blame here cuz its allways been the same way when unit rapes QQ starts OP OP and boom mega nerf --> no1 use em anymore.

[NightRain]

Assault kit gains cloak and can not pick any weapons (double MP44s that is) and half ones keeps the normal cloak ( the current one cloak in cover )

Double schrecks gains FJ cloak incover. I think that'd be good no?

[Shabtajus]

For dual shcrecks:
what about cloacking being limited by time? etc you can cloack for 20-30 seconds or so and than wait for the next 1min or so to be able cloack again. It will make blitz player scout properly to ambush tank or atg so it will slow down it and scouting unit will soak pop cap.

For mp40s:
bring back old cloack tbh, it was not a big problem to kill them anyway. Just dont let cloack in front of enemy. Everything on sight of enemy cant cloack as a main rule and we will be ok i gues

[ick312]

Just an idea about stormtrooper:

give them "Fire up" WITHOUT sprint and slow walk instead.

That would give them the option to overwhelm an enemy HMG frontally and make them to real stormies instead of cloaked assasines

[Hicks58]

FYI 4x MP44 Storms currently have the old Storm cloak.

[GrayWolf]

FYI 4x MP44 Storms currently have the old Storm cloak.

That's what NightRain had said before.

[TheWindCriesMary]

Updated the original post to reflect Nightrain's points on cover cloak and moving cloak for various upgraded types.

[CrazyWR]

Storms are fine now...they were batshit insane before, and now they are balanced.  Because elite armor grens are superior as mainline infantry and storms can no longer do stupid shit, people don't buy them as often, but they are fine.  This thread is silly.  You listed in the initial post multiple reasons why they are useful, and then just dismissed them like they don't count. 

[TheWindCriesMary]

I (and it seems a few others in this thread) haven't seen them effectively employed by any players since the big nerf, but that isn't to say they can't be. Are there instances or situations where you've seen them consistently or reasonably effectively earn their cost/investment and serve a functional role?

[CrazyWR]

As assault infantry yes, they work well still and can be extremely effective.  As carriers of shreks, they are far below their past efficiency, but that efficiency was so far out of balance that they are now just slightly above average compared to grens due to having cloak in cover(I believe?).  The thing is, nobody really except AMPM and one or two others ever used them as assault infantry in the past because of the limited amount of munitions available and using 300 munis for double shreks was the preferred choice.

[GORKHALI]

Grens r most cosy effectieve so none uses storms,coz they r expensieve even streks r expensieve in Storms , with all THE smokes and doctrine Buffs and officier Buffs 4 mp 40 Storms Will evaporatie without elite armor. I do agree dual shreks on a unit that can cloak is an overkill.

[NightRain]

I bet brit blobs loves to face off Cloaked MP44 storms uncloaking to their face and putting their DPS in use. The MP44 stormsquad is pretty fine since it can cloak and move however I'm thinking of I think they are fine. However I'm thinking of dropping their price to match other elite infantry.

[tank130]

As carriers of shreks, they are far below their past efficiency, but that efficiency was so far out of balance that they are now just slightly above average compared to grens due to having cloak in cover(I believe?). 

I totally agree they were batshit crazy before the nerf, but they are far below efficient now. Why would you even bother to get shreks on storms when the Grens are a cheaper platform?

I would like to see us find a happy medium between what they are now and what they used to be. Dual shreks on cloaked storms was the only OP part prior to the nerf.
Just give them back moving cloak but limit them to one skrek.

I think we also need to differentiate the balance issue between Mp44 storms and shrek storms. In my opinion they are two different units.

[Shabtajus]

FYI 4x MP44 Storms currently have the old Storm cloak.

yea Hicks FYI.. 4x mp44s. Tell me what i supposed to do with storms investing only tier1 doctrine unlock? To get single shreck? Or dual mp44s and cant get dat sneak atack? or maybe i am willing use them as my mainline infantry without weapon mp44s or shrecks upgrades? but why bother when i can go for grens and get at least normal nades those at least will be usefull in atacks or defending ground. So yea FYI

[Hicks58]

That sounds like a problem with 4x MP44's and dual shrecks being a T2 unlock, which it doesn't need to be anymore now that base Storms don't have mobile cloak.

The Storm weapon unlocks should have been sorted out quite a while ago, hell, even during my time. It was on the to-do list but I forget why it never went ahead, though I imagine it was due to a lack of wanting to mess with anything launcher side at the time. That shouldn't be an issue now though if the powers that be want to make the change.

[CrazyWR]

so if we allow storms to have their weapons without the t2 unlock, problem solved, no?

EDIT: and don't single shrek storms still get cloak in cover now?  That seems fine and balanced as is...

[nikomas]

Above has been planned for ages, should have happened ages ago, just havent, will next patch.