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[tank130]

EDIT: and don't single shrek storms still get cloak in cover now?  That seems fine and balanced as is...

Not really something you would consider part of good design for a doctrine called "Blitz" though is it? You have to stand still in cover to make your unit effective.

[CrazyWR]

Well I'm fine with removing cloak altogether if that is what you are suggesting.

[XIIcorps]

Not really something you would consider part of good design for a doctrine called "Blitz" though is it? You have to stand still in cover to make your unit effective.

which is why they should still have elite armor, so they can actually assault the enemy lines without evaporating.

the whole cloak thing should be for the unit as a base like piat ambush.
Even the FJs crawl would be a good idea.

but if we make that t2 unlock redundant we have the samw issue as brits gaining boys at faction wide and making another choice redundant,  unless you want to spend an unlock soley on flame sappers.

As for bundle nades, they may have lost their out of cloak shock value vs atgs,  but they still rip inf in garrisons.

[tank130]

Well I'm fine with removing cloak altogether if that is what you are suggesting.

sigh...... crazy, are you reading what I am posting?

A single shrek with moving cloak is not OP. A dual shrek with cloak is OP as fuck. Add to that, they can even pick up additional skreks if they find them.

Moving, cloaked MP40 storms are not OP. Never have been.

Here is what I am suggesting:

1.) Revert all changes to storms. (revert armor change and go back to moving cloak)
2.) Then make it that dual shrek storms can not cloak - ever.
3.) Only single shrek storms can cloak.

[XIIcorps]

sigh...... crazy, are you reading what I am posting?

A single shrek with moving cloak is not OP. A dual shrek with cloak is OP as fuck. Add to that, they can even pick up additional skreks if they find them.

Moving, cloaked MP40 storms are not OP. Never have been.

Here is what I am suggesting:

1.) Revert all changes to storms. (revert armor change and go back to moving cloak)
2.) Then make it that dual shrek storms can not cloak - ever.
3.) Only single shrek storms can cloak.

Yeh double schrecks alphaing out of cloak did something along the lines of 350dmg, and quite often it was 2x 2x schreck squads.

I cant agree woth tank more that cloak should never have became vet reliant if it was only possible in cover.
Storms having elite armor and costing 60mp more then grens was the deciding factor in choosing to run them over grens.

My only question to your propsition tank is that should that single cloakable schreck squad pick up a schreck would they loose cloak ?

[Hicks58]

You know the simple act of removing the T2 unlock and building it into the unit as it was originally will make them massively appealing as a unit to grab instead of Grenadiers, without having to make massive stat changes that may not even be possible. Such as only allowing a Storm squad to cloak with one Shreck. Trying to make that work would be a coding nightmare, if it's possible.

You build the T2 into the unit as it should have been done ages ago and Storms present you with the ability to get an extremely survivable squad (95 HP per man means they can eat a tank shell and live from anything besides a heavy or a very lucky TD round) that can equip 4x MP44's with mobile cloak or 2x Shrecks without it from the get go. Grenadiers are limited to a single shreck on a purchase and can only get LMG's, meaning you can turn to Storms for more pop-efficient AT without them being hilariously broken as well as having access to very durable assault infantry.

That, and dropping their MP cost from 280 to about 260/270.

[CrazyWR]

sigh...... crazy, are you reading what I am posting?

A single shrek with moving cloak is not OP. A dual shrek with cloak is OP as fuck. Add to that, they can even pick up additional skreks if they find them.

Moving, cloaked MP40 storms are not OP. Never have been.

Here is what I am suggesting:

1.) Revert all changes to storms. (revert armor change and go back to moving cloak)
2.) Then make it that dual shrek storms can not cloak - ever.
3.) Only single shrek storms can cloak.

I read what you wrote. I disagree with you conclusion.  Moving cloak needs removed from everything but snipers. It should NEVER EVER COME BACK.  Cloak in cover is fine, although not with dual shreks, which I honestly think should be removed entirely, including from defensive doctrine.


I think Hick's post solves all the problems here and should make everyone happy.

[GORKHALI]

I bet brit blobs loves to face off Cloaked MP44 storms uncloaking to their face and putting their DPS in use. The MP44 stormsquad is pretty fine since it can cloak and move however I'm thinking of I think they are fine. However I'm thinking of dropping their price to match other elite infantry.

except vet 1 mandos , coz they will ninja disappear and rape ur face, but even with 4 mp 40 and cloak they can only take on 1 unit if they r blobbing then even a surprise attack will be fail.

[GORKHALI]

sigh...... crazy, are you reading what I am posting?

A single shrek with moving cloak is not OP. A dual shrek with cloak is OP as fuck. Add to that, they can even pick up additional skreks if they find them.

Moving, cloaked MP40 storms are not OP. Never have been.

Here is what I am suggesting:

1.) Revert all changes to storms. (revert armor change and go back to moving cloak)
2.) Then make it that dual shrek storms can not cloak - ever.
3.) Only single shrek storms can cloak.

+1

[aeroblade56]

except vet 1 mandos , coz they will ninja disappear and rape ur face, but even with 4 mp 40 and cloak they can only take on 1 unit if they r blobbing then even a surprise attack will be fail.

oh lawde.

mandos so bad.

[XIIcorps]

except vet 1 mandos , coz they will ninja disappear and rape ur face, but even with 4 mp 40 and cloak they can only take on 1 unit if they r blobbing then even a surprise attack will be fail.

Volks and Pios use MP40s

Storms use MP44's


HUGE Difference

[tank130]

I read what you wrote. I disagree with you conclusion.  Moving cloak needs removed from everything but snipers. It should NEVER EVER COME BACK.  Cloak in cover is fine, although not with dual shreks, which I honestly think should be removed entirely, including from defensive doctrine.


I think Hick's post solves all the problems here and should make everyone happy.

I'm cool with you disagreeing. In fact, if you look back over history I was fanatic that no units should have moving cloak except snipers.

My opinion changed when I saw how useless storms became without it.

I also disagree a wee bit with Hicks. Why would I invest that much into a double shrek storm that everyone can see & avoid and becomes the biggest target on the field for AI.
Surviving a tank shell is not really an asset considering anything shooting the shell is running away from the dbl shreks.........lol

I don't understand why you guys just don't try it one patch and see what happens. Just revert all the changes made to the storms and not allow them to have more than one shrek. Simple, easy change and eliminates the biggest reason they were nerfed in the first place.

[XIIcorps]

I just want to see storm cloak in cover at vet0 regarless of loadout, if they are deemed too UP/OP at this stage then we should move further into buffs/debuffs.

[skaffa]

I was always big fan of storms but now I like that they cant cloak anymore.

[XIIcorps]

So if storms could get Elite Armor back asap that would be swell.

Cheers

[GrayWolf]

So if storms could get Elite Armor back asap that would be swell.

Cheers

Look. If corps says that axis unit is UP, it must be really fucked up!
Remove cloak, move elite armor back.

[XIIcorps]

Look. If corps says that axis unit is UP, it must be really fucked up!
Remove cloak, move elite armor back.

I was fine with cloak being Vet 1 with Elite armor, gave you tank ambush grens basically.

Now were getting overpriced Ambush "ASSault" grens.

I understand there was talk of them being made redundant due to mid Blitz T4 making grens have elite armor, but if your doing this you wont buy storms or vice versa.

Considering KCH are 290mp 110mu and Storms are 280mp and 60-140mu, something has got to fucking give asap

[nikomas]

Funny that, a few days I played a 4xmp44 coy (with ze cloak that it gives now) and the allies comment were "fucking elite inf spam"

Fo real thou, 95 health AND elite armor is fucking retarded. There is a reason that keeps getting removed in a fairly short manner after it gets added, happened about three times now I'd think.

[NightRain]

why would anyone like a unit that has the same role as Grenadiers without anything special to it with more expensive grenade(even if the best one) and 25 mun medkits? The major thing you are paying for is mainly +15 health per men in comparison to grenadiers.

I wouldn't say it is worth it even if I do like storm only companies. The cloak was their thing and it was OP because of double schrecks. Now that one can not acquire two of them the OPness is gone. The elite armor idea was retarded, a good idea for T4, not as a standard. Though nobody would complain about 4x MP44 cloaking masters with the most health per member, would someone?

[Hicks58]

Because that 15 HP is the difference between dying to a medium tank shot and shrugging it off.

In fact, the only tank that can one shot you at that point is a Pershing, or a very lucky TD (Without delving into reward units).

Now that one can not acquire two of them the OPness is gone.

You can still take dual shrecks on Stormtroopers, which is a very good reason to take them over Grenadiers considering even without cloak it's still the most pop efficient AT support you can get your hands on.